Battery Performance Dropping consistently

I am noticing Lvl 3 Fast Chargers are not getting my to 80% nearly as quickly before.
Latest sessions at different locations I see 62% at 380V and <40 AMPS.

I had a 2pm appt today to get it checked out but I'm totally broke at the moment in case they find no fault since it's on LEASE until Feb 2018.
Advisor has never seen a battery go bad so he doesn't really know the signs of a failing battery... and when weak performance is just weak enough to have the battery replaced. He insisted that I should wait for error lights to show up on my dashboard.

Not that it matters much, but I came to this same dealer when I had a OBC (on-board controller) Fail on me about 4 months ago.

Performance degradation was first noticed about 3 weeks ago when amperage dropped from 100 Amps to under 50 when reaching 70% with the fast chargers.

1.) Should I be worried esp since I wanted to see the great solar eclipse next week driving from California to Oregon? I figure I can at lease leave a day earlier than planned to use Level 2 Chargers along the way (540 miles there and same returning home). Level 2 Charging seems to be somewhat more reliable aside from a recent night when it refused to top off at 100% the time before I last reached 100%.

2.) My mileage is about 67,000 (warranty covers up to 100,000)

3.) How long does it normally take to order a new battery replacement to be delivered to a dealer if in fact I need a new one.
I'm in Sacramento, CA

4.) If no dashboard lights come on. When is the final crossing line to say, "My battery needs to be replaced". How poorly does it need to perform?? (if the major red flag is that it's not performing nominally and seeing a normal charge go up to 80% without a drop in amps far below 100 amps)

This could be something as simple as a loose connection on the battery fan so the battery warms up and the charging rate is reduced to prevent it overheating, or as you say it could be a bad battery. There have been a few people here who have had bad batteries, it's not common but it does happen.

The real test is going to be reading out the battery health and also taking a look at what is going on when doing an L3 charge. You could do this yourself with Torque Pro on your phone and an OBDII reader, see the other threads about it.

Thanks for those tips. What are the normal signs that a battery is on the decline with regards to using Fast-Chargers?
And more importantly, when is the line crossed, when you know a new battery replacement under warranty can go into action?
Surely, one does not need to keep using the same battery until fast-charging performance tops off at 50% or less... or is it when Level 2 charging seems to have not charging effect? I doubt it's a fan issue being that I've had no lights on the dashboard come up... but in case they're not supposed to, I'll certainly keep an ear out. I don't recall hearing the fan run in quite some time. I think I'll test it out when I charge up at home to 80%, then go to a fast-charger 10 miles away and listen for the fan to come on (assuming they come on in 80-90 deg F temps that we encounter in Sacramento on a nice day.

Just knowing something is wrong will help my peace of mind not having to pay for a diagnostic check at the local KIA Dealership.

luisallen said:

... What are the normal signs that a battery is on the decline with regards to using Fast-Chargers?..

Click to expand...

For the Kia Soul EV no-one who is measuring battery performance on this site has a degraded battery. So we don't know yet.

But I do have an old Kia Ray EV that does have significant battery degradation. This car uses similar SK Innovation cells and the same BMS as the the Soul EV. In that car the time spent charging at a fast charger declines as the battery shrinks. You charge at the same power, but the amount of energy you put into the battery is less.

Just in case people start to panic reading the above. There are a couple of things you should know.

1). The OP has 67,000 miles (107,000kms) on a car that is just over a year old.

2). They seem to charge extensively on a rapid charger (level 3)

Obviously lots of highway driving being done and rapid charges.

This is extreme for any electric car. An EV is ideal for around town with some highway. The higher current draws from highway will (depending on average speed) accelerate battery degradation. Couple this with the higher amperage push on a level 3 charger and you have a recipe for even more degradation. If you combine both of these ectivities frequently (long trips) you are Definitely going to see accelerated battery degradation.

These are city cars not cross country commuters.

Flame me if you like. Just being the voice of reason here.

That sounds reasonable enough. I have been a road warrior and currently at 67,000 miles.
I suppose making a cross-country trip up to Salem, OR from Sacramento, CA would be too risky until I upgrade to a much more long-range EV such as the Chevy Bolt. Thanks for the feedback! It's much appreciated. I'll keep you posted on what the next few weeks bring.

biffidum said:

Just in case people start to panic reading the above. There are a couple of things you should know.

1). The OP has 67,000 miles (107,000kms) on a car that is just over a year old.

Click to expand...

FYI, My car is 2.5 yrs and the 3 yr lease will be up in February, 2018.

Here's what happened Aug 18th:

Started fine:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_dE52cVc1aVhSM28

Then:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_Z0F0TlBRbm1CV0k

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_UzNoUmM4QU5YYm8

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_Zi1XbnRNUmNJOVk

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_MjY5Rmo0WHIwcG8


Please let me know if there is a better way to post photos. This past weekend's performance is more dramatic.

Here's what happened Aug 25th:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_YU8wWFVOSFNjTFE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_TlMzemVDRHkyQVE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_anNla2ZWSkZ1WWc

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_X1FsRGZRS1ZaMHc

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_Vmpnd1Bkak1ZMGc

At this point, I spent 20 minutes switching over to a Level 2 charger next to the Level 3 Fast Charger until it reached 74%.
Then I switched back to the Level 3 charger to see how it would go... and then this happened:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3K4znjmDzC_RTVUaWF5VXBIUDg

I went onward to continue just charging up at a nearby mall's Level 2 charger the rest of the evening with no issues.

Technician came out from back during my visit to a KIA Dealership in Elk Grove, CA so that he could answer my questions/concerns.

1) Claims that the fast-chargers are designed to trickle down in charge rate once the battery reaches 50-60% (claims that is what he learned in training), which is odd being that most of the time up until about 2 months ago it would only start to trickle down (in amps) in charge rate near 80%.

2) As a test, also asked him what the amps / charge rate is for a level 2 charger is normally. His answer? "I don't really know since we never really watch those (readings/metrics).

At the end of it, I thanked him for his info (and saving me $130 for a diagnostic reading) and will just monitor to see if the degradation gets worst where the fast-charger starts to 'trickle down' at 50% or less.

Can anyone confirm/help that I'm going about this the right way? :?

Use Torque Pro ... ? :?





http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=471&start=320#p6516

and you can draw curve, after : http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=685

You need a better tech, one that knows what he is talking about.

1) It's the car's BMS that tells the fast charger what to supply (within the limits of the charger).
2) The car charges at constant current (about 125 Amps on a 50kW CHAdeMO) up to a battery voltage of 390V. This corresponds to a 71% charge. At that point it changes to charging at a constant voltage of 390V and the current starts dropping. The car completes charging first at 84% and then if unplugged and plugged back in it will stop charging at 91% charge.

The CHAdeMO charger I've used shows the voltage and current while it is charging, so no need to setup Torque Pro, although that may show what is going on with your battery in terms of bad cell health / voltage.

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I looked at the images you posted. Yes, your car is not behaving normally on the Chademo c harger. It is tapering the current much earlier than normal.

But. If your car is charging normally on the slow c harger, and if your range is not declining, then I think there may be something other than battery degradation causing the problem.

I searched for a similar confusing problem, because I thought it might be the same. It isn't. Here is a case where the performance of slow charging dropped because of a faulty cooling pump. see https://www.facebook.com/groups/SoulEV/permalink/1397189260361683/

Brian Henderson said:

Need Kia Soul EV dealer service reconditions in the Sacramento, SFO Bay Area. My Soul's on-board AC charger appears to have failed.
(photo, says charging, but -1% per hour actual … enemy though display 20+ hours on 240V).
Without AC charging, I stranded in California!!
D.C. charging is still working, so somewhat mobile … but not going anywhere fast, as what to limit battery heating in California's hot climate zone(s).
Any leads greatly appreciated … particularly from any Soul drives that have had an on-board charger fail/replaced recently?
Murphy 1 : Brian 0

Turns out it's the cooling pump that failed! As a result charging using the on-board charger at temperatures above 80-90°, the charging juice is slowed to a trickle. Nice that the Soul EV has self preserving features and doesn't try to burn up the power electronics!
Murphy 2 : Brian 0

Click to expand...

Be carefull, in my country, we have Chademo charger set to cut-off the charge at 90% (for all cars, even in CCS mode) ... and no indications are provided to see this.

You can only see this with internal tool (or by experience with others chademo chargers).

Update since my last post....

I've visited a dealership in Roseville, CA (not Elk Grove this time) in early December strongly requesting that my battery SOH be checked. Coincidentally, they had a recall flag to update the electrical system (did everyone else receive this too?) and said they would check the SOH at no charge... However, at the end of the day, I didn't get the actual report on paper regarding each cell's SOH that I wanted. They said I would have to pay ~$100 for it on paper. It was already approaching 5pm and decided to try out the vehicle with the latest update. The jaw-dropper was that they claimed that the SOH of my vehicle was at 100% which made me suspicious. I had over 160K mileage and close to 3 yrs driving the dickens on this vehicle, and now they're telling me by battery is still good as new? This is coming from the service counter and not the technician. Baffling.

Since my original postings, I now only get 40 miles on a 100% full (SOC) charge due in part to the system update. Mind you, I always drive in Eco Mode in 'B' Gear and drive slower than the max speed limit. I'm a trained light food due to my 12 years of driving a Honda Insight 2001 model. This last system update seems to help better estimate miles remaining on the dash with a more realistic (heavy foot driver) approach if I'm not mistaken.

My lease is up on Feb 2nd for the 2015 SOUL EV. I'm likely going to just give up on this model and drive the family shared gas car until I save up for a better model (Tesla or Ford Bolt) unless someone can convince me to 'buy' this vehicle with all the hassle the Service Dept seems to be giving me of late. I'd rather pay the $6-7,000 penalty on mileage rather than worry about my battery's SOH every 2 years. My battery now trickles down on a CHADEMO Fast Charger when I reach 60% and I unplug at 65%. I should add that the last month I've had my SOUL EV just sitting in the driveway and driving the family car more these days... otherwise I'm sure I'd be experiencing even worse battery performance. Has anyone else out there surpassed 150,000-170,000 miles and is going through a similar experience? Thanks in advance.

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Yes. I suggest you say goodbye to your Soul EV.
It does not work for your driving usage.

Your battery is almost certainly degraded enough that whoever gets it next will need a replacement battery.
That the service center told you it was at 100% is total stupidity,
They performed a BMS reset. It resets the SOH to 100%

BTW - in your earlier posts you stated 67,000miles. Now you state 160,000.
If it is the former you are still covered by the warranty.
If the latter you have driven far more than anyone else on this forum.

Oops! My bad.

72,727 miles to be exact as of today.

I'd be paying at least $7345.40 in penalty mileage.

I'd like to think I should consider the Chevy Bolt with its 238+ mile range in the future if not a Tesla 3.