Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:18 pm

I originally posted about my Soul EV in the battery aging thread, but I'm re-posting here to keep my story separate and easier to find. It's my hope that my experience will be insightful for your own situation.

I purchased a 2015 Soul EV, with roughly 37k miles in Dec 2017. I'm the second owner and I live in SoCal. The car is a 3-year lease return and the original owner lived in Northern Cali and drove the 37k miles. When I initially bought the car, the GOM read around 70 miles, but as I drove it more, it dropped 70-> 65->60->55->50 miles. There seemed to be some serious battery degredation. I decided to do a range test to see how far I can drive on a full charge (and how much kwh can be pulled out). Here are my results.

Here are Torque readings from before the range test:

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The test was done at 80mph on flat highway with no wind, cruise control on. Low battery warning came on at ~45mi (when range went to ---). Ultimately I was able to drive ~51 miles until I hit 1% (last few miles @ city speeds). Consumption was around 2.5mi/kwh on the dash.

Here are Torque readings from after the test:

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Torque reading from full charge to 100% the next day:

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Since neither the car nor Torque provides the kWh used, the only guess is by looking at what it takes to recharge to full 100% from the EVSE. It is a very constant 6.6-6.8 kW charging speed, until the last 20-30 mins, then it tapers off. Note that EVSE kWh reading is from the wall. Please only look at the 1st row (other rows is from charging a dffferent EV):

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Based on the kWh used to charge, (and assuming 100% charging efficiency, which it's not), 20.4 / 27 kwh usable means 75.5% SOH. (20.4 kwh * 2.5mi/kwh = 50mi on GOM seems roughly correct). I also want to note that based on several forum members here, my SOH displayed on Torque didn't drop from 83.1% -> 79.4% from driving fast or deep-cycling to 1%. The BMS simply re-calibrated itself to the proper SOH values after been driven down to low SOC and charging back up too 100%. No harm was done to the battery by doing this test. See the calibration thread for more details on this.

Based on these SOH values, several forum members here recommend that I take in the Soul EV to the dealer to get a SOH report. This will help us validate the Torque SOH numbers, and I will potentially get a battery replacement from Kia if my SOH is registered to be less than 70% on their end based on their capacity warranty.
Last edited by Kish on Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:42 pm

Kish wrote:...Since neither the car nor Torque provides the kWh used,...

Torque does provide the kWh used. The method I have written just below this on how to read the kWh going into and out of the battery works on all the batteries we have tested so far. Those all have SOH=100%. You are the first person to test a battery on the Soul EV that is severely degraded. But this method may not work in your case. Could you show us these readings from your car. Or even better could you show a graph similar to the one drawn for the Kia Ray EV below.

Torque provides the Cumulative kWh charged and discharged into the battery. To get the input kWh for one charging session subtract the CEC value at the start from the CEC (Cumulative Energy Charged) value at the end. To get the output kWh for one driving session is slightly harder because you need to take into account the regenerated energy. You calculate that by finding how much charge went into the battery during driving using the CEC counter as before. The CED (Cumulative Energy Discharged) counters will give you the kWh used during the driving plus the additional regen.

I have tested on an old Kia Ray EV with serious degradation. - Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV
The Cumulative Energy counter shows an anomaly. It does not go up in a straight line as our non-degraded Soul EVs do. This explains why the Energy Counter cannot be used to measure the capacity of the battery

Image
Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:45 pm

It was quite a challenge to find a dealer who is willing to service the Soul EV, even in SoCal. The initial dealer that I made an appointment with over the phone mentioned that they service EVs, but when I showed up to my appointment, they sent me away saying that they don't sell or work on EVs (they had several Hybrids/PHEVs for sale though!). After a lot of calling and searching, here are some of the SoCal dealers that service the Soul EV, for reference:

  • Kia of Alhambra
  • Kia of Irvine
  • Kia of Orange
  • Kia of Pomona


While waiting for my 2nd appointment to arrive at the dealer (which btw took a while to get), I checked the SoH values on the Soul EV again. And to my surprise the SOH was up to 91.7% (up from 79.1% 2 months ago)! Hoping that it was just the BMS being un-calibrated again, I ended up doing another range/drain test:

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To 1% yielded only 47.9 miles! (Down from 51 miles last time):

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After a full recharge, the Soul EV pulled 18.52 kWh from the wall and still shows 90.2% SoH! Based on the kWh used to recharge, the SOH should be 18.52/ 27 kWh = 68.59% SOH.

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Now even more anticipating the visit to the dealer, really curious on what's going on with the SOH.
Last edited by Kish on Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:03 pm

Finally the day has arrived, I took my car into the Kia dealership in the morning.

I explained my situation to the service advisor (I'm only getting ~50 miles on a charge). He initially misunderstood and thought that it was due to the onboard charger (OBC) not charging up to 100%, so I'm not getting a full charge. I told him that that wasn't the case at all; I have no problems charging at level 2 to 100%. He then checked in his "system" and indeed saw that the OBC has already been replaced once by another dealership, and confirmed that the OBC can't be the issue then (duh! :roll: ). I told him very clearly that I want some diagnostics done on the battery pack and I wanted a printed SOH report. I then left, after I was promised that the car would be returned by end of the day, after they run through their diagnostics. I asked for a loaner vehicle but was denied (loaner only provided if Kia approves a repair).

Later that afternoon I got a call from the service advisor letting me know that they ran their diagnostics (fault codes) and they weren't able to find anything wrong, so they can't do anything for me. In response I told him that I expected as much (no error codes), in that case I just want the SOH report (which is what I originally ask for anyway!), and I'll take the car back. He didn't like that at all-- he wanted $110 (1h of labor) to run that SOH report, and I said go ahead do it. (I didn't want the car at the dealership without any new info!)

Later in the evening I got another call from the service advisor saying that "Kia has requested more testing be done on the vehicle", and they need to keep the car for another few days, as their "EV specialist/technican" isn't currently available. (Wow, so they just read fault codes from a OBD II reader, not very useful! :roll: ). Still no loaner vehicle though-- same story "only provided if/when Kia approves a repair". So I'm sitting without a car for a few days, not so happy :(

A few days later I get a call back from the service advisor-- Kia has approved for my Soul EV for a free battery pack replacement under warranty! :D I tried to ask more details on the battery replacement conditions, but he just said that Kia was not happy with the test results. Naturally I also asked him how long that would take and he said a few weeks. Apparently the last time he did a battery pack replacement for the Soul EV, it took him 3 weeks from start to finish. How about a loaner vehicle? Yep, since the repair was approved, I get a loaner for the time being. Sadly it's no EV, just a regular ICE vehicle.

I'll provide an update once I get my Soul EV back with the replacement battery pack. I'm excited and curious what the Torque values will be!
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:23 am

-
Am glad you are getting a new battery. The old one was clearly problematic. You were right to insist on further checks.
If you happen to have the logfiles from your previous Torque tests, I would be happy to see them.
I commented upthread earlier today about looking at the Cumulative Energy data on Torque.
Too late to do new tests now.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:00 pm

Yeah, unfortunately I checked my phone's Torque logs under the dir ~/torqueLogs and it was empty. ~/.torque/tripLogs does have the logs from all my driving tests, but it only has the GPS data which isn't useful. Thanks for the pointer on CEC and CED, I will use those Torque values in my next driving test, in addition to using my EVSE data. From what I understand:

kWh used to charge
= CEC (after charging) - CEC (before charging).

kWh used while driving
= total kWh discharged - total kWh charged (regen)
= (CED (after driving)) - CED (before driving)) - (CEC (after driving) - CEC (before driving))
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:28 pm

A representative from Kia HQ called me today to let me know that the replacement battery pack has been shipped to the dealer yesterday. That's essentially 1 day after they approved the repair :o ! I was expecting the replacement to take 3-4 weeks, but looks like I may be able to get my car back sooner than that. Out of curiosity, I asked them if they knew from where the battery pack is being shipped from (since some other forum members' packs were imported from Korea), but they did not have a concrete answer, and simply said that Kia has warehouses throughout the U.S.
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

Javi
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:55 am

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:57 am

I will follow your story.

thanks for comment

Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:44 pm

The service adviser at the dealership called me today, Soul EV is ready for pickup! Checked UVO and am seeing 92 miles @ 91% 8-) (This was ~50 miles before at 90%):

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Of course these are just estimates, the real test will be to see what Torque says and a driving test. The battery replacement was completed 8 calendar days (6 business days) after the repair was approved by Kia. This was 7 days after the replacement pack was shipped to the dealer from the warehouse. I'm not quite picking up the car yet, I'm having the dealer look into one more issue (unrelated to battery).
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

Kish
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:53 pm

Picked up my Soul EV from the dealership. Looks like they replaced both the battery pack and the BMS. Here is what the repair paperwork says:

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It may be a bit difficult to read, so here is what is says: "Customer reports will charge to 100% but range will only give 55 miles. Cause: checked no codes present, checked BMS battery SOH and was at 66.5%. Also checked SOC and reading 93.5%. Contacted tech line xxxxxx and wrote diagnostics and sent screenshot of BMS data, and tech line advised to replace the high voltage battery and BMS module due to SOH below 70%".

It's interesting to see that the dealerships' own calculation was 66.5% SOH (which of course triggered the battery capacity warranty). This was very similar to my own calculations of 68.59% SOH based on EVSE charging data. However, Torque's estimated SOH values of 79.4% and later on, 90.2% were widely incorrect in my situation. In the meantime, the range now on the GOM indicates 98 miles at 100%:

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I'll follow up later with Torque readings and a range test after driving. As far as my old battery pack, I do hope Kia will recycle it properly or put it into other good uses. I wish they had let me kept it somehow, as 18 kWh (66.5% SOH) usable would've been still great for a home battery backup solution.
Last edited by Kish on Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

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