ksoul2084
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:05 pm

I have another update on my car's battery.

For ease of reading here are my previous posts in this thread...

ksoul2084 wrote:Hi all, I recently bought a used 2016 Soul EV+ out of Quebec that was a used as a taxi for all of its life until now. My understanding is that it was likely DC Fast charged most of the time as well.

Car has 140k on the odometer. Currently a full 100% charge will report 83km range on the screen. Driving conservatively I'd say I am able to get 100km or so.

Some readings from SoulEVSpy:

Min Cell Det %: 19.1
Max Cell Det %: 36.3
SOH: 82.3%

SOH was 93.4% (Min Det: 0, Max Det: 33.2) 4 days ago before I started to drive it to work each day this week. I assume the min cell % was wrong at that point for some reason.

When I check the battery cell heat map after arriving home from my 35km commute I see:
7 cells @ 3.64v
36 cells @ 3.66v
51 cells @ 3.68v
3 cells @ 3.62v
1 cell @ 3.60
and 1 cell @ 3.58v

Thoughts?


ksoul2084 wrote:Another update on my 2016 Soul EV+ with 141K mileage.

So this morning for the first time my GOM read over 100km estimated range with 100% charge (101km). Outside temp. is 9c.

I've been adjusting my driving habits to better suit the car and this has been consistently increasing my range over time. My commutes to/from work are generally 15.1 - 15.5 kWh/100km now which seems pretty low to me.

This mornings readings from SoulEVSpy:
Max cell det.: 38.9%
Min cell det.: 18.9%
SOH: 81.01% (this has been dropping slightly each time I check it).


Mileage is now 145138km.

GOM range has been dropping a bit and now getting 90-100km with similar temps and conditions as last post.

Max cell det. is now: 42.6%
Min cell det. is now: 0.8%
SOH: 66% (using latest SoulSpy app with improved SOH formula).

Question is should I file for a warranty replacement now or wait another month or so to see if gets even worse (which I expect it will with colder temps approaching)?

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

notfred
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:28 pm

Start the warranty process now, there's no benefit to waiting.

Oinq
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:37 pm

1 month I wouldn't wait; you gain 1 month life on the new battery.
Now if you tell me that in 1 year you are still under the mileage and age to file a claim and your actual range is enough; I personally would wait more to the end of warranty.

Code: Select all

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GHPRH6iS98wNhViDA


Soul EV 2016

JeroenE
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:07 pm

ksoul2084 wrote:Question is should I file for a warranty replacement now or wait another month or so to see if gets even worse (which I expect it will with colder temps approaching)?
What do you think to gain by waiting?

Depending on your location you might need to wait several weeks for the arrival of replacement battery, anyway.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:42 am

-
I would start the replacement process now. Your battery won't last another year, so why wait another month.
I wrote on June 9th when you first posted here. 3 months later we can see the battery getting worse.
These are strange readings, and taken together with the voltage deviation of one cell that is behaving differently from the rest leads me to assume that one cell - in this case #95 - is failing. But I don't think it has 'failed' enough for you to get a replacement battery yet. Although it would be worth phoning Kia to ask what criteria they will use to judge whether the replacement is necessary. Maybe they will accept the request based on the low GOM. My guess though is that you will have to wait a few months for the SOH to come down.

Here are the stats you have posted over the last few months. I have corrected the SOH numbers so that they all use the 'Elmil' formula that is now used by SoulEVSpy. A battery with a failed cell depends purely on how badly the failed cell is doing.

Code: Select all

Jun 06 2019,  Min 19.1%, Max 36.3%, SOH 72.8%
Jun 20 2019,  Min 18.9%, Max 38.9%, SOH 70.0%
Jul 06 2019,  Min 16.9%, Max 42.3%, SOH 66.4%
Jul 07 2019,  Min 0.6%,  Max 37.3%, SOH 71.7%
Aug 10 2019,  Min 0.1%,  Max 38.8%, SOH 70.1%
Sep 12 2019,  Min 0.8%,  Max 42.6%, SOH 66.0%
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

ksoul2084
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:59 am

The reason I was considering waiting a bit longer is to see that it continues to decline to avoid a "borderline" situation with KIA.

The range now is just enough for my daily commute. If necessary I can also 120v charge during the day at work but it's a bit of a PIA to take the charger back and forth each day.

As I am not in a province with any KIA EV certified dealers I will open a case via their website and see what happens. This is apparently the approach taken by someone else in the US successfully.

Popescuiulian26
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:36 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:03 pm

Hello I live in central of France where is not too hot like in the south , I have a soul ev 2015 , with about 102000 km on board, in the last few months I was achieving a consumption of 14,5 kWh / 100 km . But my car charged 100% shows me only 123 km of range . Since I have this car I only made a max of 145 km with about 15kwh/ 100km . I only do slow charging with the charger provided , since I have it i have done very few fast charging chademo .
I had her checked last time when I had 85000 km , but there In the shop they had made an upgrade to the battery and drive train , and checked the Soh at 100% . The chief from the shop told they only measure the voltage of the battery. Does Kia France try to scam owners ?!
Should i start the complaint for the battery guarantee?!

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:00 pm

-
Popescuiulian26 - I guess that your SOH is about 75% and that you should wait a few more months. You could check for yourself by running one of the diagnostic programs like Torque or SoulEVSpy.

Popescuiulian26 wrote:...In the shop they had made an upgrade to the battery and drive train , and checked the Soh at 100% . The chief from the shop told they only measure the voltage of the battery. Does Kia France try to scam owners ?!

No. Probably not. It is ignorance not malice.
Everywhere the story is the same. The mechanics think that a BMS software upgrade is a 'fix'. Doing this upgrade is what they are told to do. They do not know what it does. It actually fixes a heating issue at very low temperatures. But a side effect of the BMS software upgrade is that the counters all get reset. The battery computer now thinks the battery is brand new.
Voila! They have fixed the battery, because now the SOH shows 100%.
It takes a week or more of normal driving and charging for the BMS to re-learn what the actual state of the battery is.
Trying to speed that process up by longer drives seems to have mixed results. - see Should I return my 2016 Soul EV?

They also do this when the OBC is broken. They apply a software update which adds extra diagnostic routines.
They will then tell you that the car is fixed.
In this case you need to force them to check by charging the car. The diagnostic routines only trigger when a charging fault occurs, not when the software is added.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

ksoul2084
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:37 am

Another data-point on my 2016.

It takes approx. 10.5 hours to charge my car from 20%-100% on my 120v Level I charger (approx. 1.4 kW).

According to this charging calculator (https://www.homechargingstations.com/ev ... alculator/), that would correspond to approx. 17kWh of battery capacity available in total, which works out to about 63% of the original 27kWh battery capacity. This also jives fairly well with my SOH of 66%.

RoxyDG
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:02 pm

Since there's tons of posts on here I want to apologize if I'm being too redundant. My 2016 Kia Soul EV+ has 24100 miles and state of health report per the dealership is less than 50%. As I type this I'm sitting in the dealership waiting room because they are arranging my rental car. From what I understand, this issue is related to the climate here in Houston, Texas where we have miserable hot conditions about 5-6 months out of the year. Average high temp is around 92-99 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer (or something like that). The service rep told me she's had many replacements in the past two years and they are almost all with less than 30,000 miles on the odometer. The highest she's had was around 32,000 miles! Sheesh! You'd hope Kia has corrected poor performance in hot weather issue for the 2020 model. Frankly Kia should offer a big fat credit instead and I'd buy a 2020 model with it. It seems like that would be a win-win for Kia because it would spare them the time and cost of a new battery replacement while selling a new car. Oh well.

Return to “Technical Discussions”