JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:21 am

ZuinigeRijder wrote:Interesting enough, the battery degradation has been diminished according to the read-outs
Did someone else see this happen?
Yes. It is common. See the battery calibration thread. My car had quite low deterioration for a long while then made a sudden large jump down. After that it rebounded upwards for a few weeks before stabilizing. I think the readouts often have a substantial error. This gets corrected every so often.
ZuinigeRijder wrote:...the cold weather was changed in one day from 0 degrees Celcius to +13 degrees Celcius. ...
Here the cold weather changed in two days from -6 degrees Celsius to +11 degrees Celsius. There has been a very fast melt. My house had about 30 cm of snow. The mountain behind about 1m 30cm.
The GOM on my car has rebounded fairly quickly. Back at 155km from 108km. But I did not drive in the snow.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Tom
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:37 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:45 am

Tom wrote:I drove downhill a month ago and I recuperated arround another 1.5kWh still as the SOC (display) was showing me a 100% SOC.
I started with 95% SOC and rec was 3.2kWh within a distance of 12.7km.

Usually I can drive downhill at home from 700 to 500 meter above seelevel within 10km wit no problems and fully rec even if the SOC is 100% BUT there it was to steep and
after arround 10km my rec was not longer in action and I had to use my regulary breaks downhill........what a energy waste .....and I was charging the car to 95% the night befor.


I wrote here something wrong at all.

So I try it again with the right values:
I drove downhill a month ago and I recuperated 3.2kWh within a distance of 12.7km..
I started with 95% SOC.
At some point I had the 100% SOC and as the Soul usually does, it still recuperated.
After this distance of 12.7km I had the follwing values with the OVMS command trip:
Dis: -2.2kWh
Rec: 3.2kWh
Sum: 1.0kWh

So the batterie was charged with 2.2kWh with a start SOC of 95%.

By the way: The batterie temperature (and the car) was arround freezing point at the moment we started with 95% SOC.
KIA Soul EV with vented seats and Chademo
Until July 2015 i-MiEV 13'500km
Summer 2015; Sold my all year arround used Cadillac Seville STS

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:49 am

On this forum the SOH is measured as being 96.2 % after driving 34000 km and also using CHADEMO regularly.

Unfortunately no information about the minimum and maximum battery degradation numbers which can be measured by OBDII dongle.

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JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:42 pm

ZuinigeRijder: thanks for posting that. I will post about how we find the SOH on the Soul Spy thread. In terms of battery ageing this data seems reasonable and fits with what we are seeing. That 96.2 % after driving 34,000 km will be measuring usable capacity not total as we have been doing until now. This car is in Switzerland. It's pretty much the same as the deterioration in range posted by mtndrew1 from Southern California - "I've only lost 5.56% of usable capacity in ~21,000 miles"
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:08 pm

Nothing new in the data we are collecting. We have no measurable difference in the deterioration from any climate, driving style or type of ch arger. In fact by some statistical fluke the current trend lines for my car in South Korea, Elmil's car in Sweden and an average of 14 cars around the world are all identical.
In the graphic below my car is blue, Elmil's pink. The cars are the same age, but his has driven twice as far. The values on my car are static for a while and then yo-yo around. His seem a bit more stable. Neither seem very linear though, so fitting a linear trendline should be taken with a very large grain of salt. Also note that all of these cars still had 100% SOH. We don't know yet how this scale will match actual deterioration in range.
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Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Elmil
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:46 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:50 am

As it happens, I had another decrease of my deterioration values last night.

Code: Select all

Date        Km        Max   Cell    Min    Cell   SOC
2015-11-01           9.3%   32     8.3%    1   92.5%
2015-11-05  18780    9.8%    2     8.4%    8   92.5%
2015-11-19  19751   10.3%   24     9.2%    1   91.5%
2015-12-23  22610   11.2%    3    10.2%    8   92.0%
2016-02-29  27339    9.8%    2     8,8%    8   92.0%
2016-04-04  30209    7.9%   37     6.5%   20   92.5%

Since friday morning and during the weekend I drove a total of 180km from full charge down to 5% displayed. When parked at home I left the car running until flashing turtle at 3%. Charged overnight (230V/2kW), and the deterioration values changed at the very same charge level as the previous times, i.e. when all 96 cells were at 0xCC (4.08V).

The used energy during driving, and the charged energy:

Code: Select all

Discharged (97% of usable): 25.1kWh   72.0Ah
Charged (97% of usable):    26.1kWh   72.0Ah
It seems my battery has lost a little bit of capacity, but not as much as you could expect after 30000km.
Having 30000km service next week, will be back with updated SOH value then.
Kia Soul EV 2015 / 115,543 km Sold
Kia Soul EV 2019

Birkeland
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:26 am

Then I have finally gotten an OBDII bluetooth adapter to work with Torque Pro.

My data:
km: 19.094
Max deterioration: 7,2%
Min deterioration: 4,9%
Car age: 12 months
Location: Norway
Cumulative Energy Charged: 3.990kWh
Cumulative Energy Discharged: 3.889kWh

It has been over a month since I charged the car to 100% (I usually leave it at 40% and charge the car to 60-70% with my 6.6kW charger just before I need it). I will recharge my car to 100% soon to see if the balancing of the battery cells will change the numbers.
Last edited by Birkeland on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Owner of a 2015 KIA Soul Exclusive, Titanium Silver

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:17 am

Birkeland: good to see those deterioration numbers. Your car seems to be below average. Perhaps Scandinavia will gain a lead here given Elmil's improved numbers in the post above. To calibrate your battery pack you need to charge to 100% then drive the pack down to nearly empty and then charge to 100% again. It is on this 2nd 100% charge that calibration occurs. I have had my car for nearly a year and have never gone below 13% yet. I began a calibration test today and will complete it tomorrow. Results can be either up or down. We just all hope to be lucky like Elmil.

Results for my calibration test:- charged to 100%, drove 200km, charged to 100%
I stopped driving and started charging at 9% SOC.
GOM before 174km, GOM after 178km. My highest so far this Spring.
Deterioration values did reset. min det reduced from 6.8% to 5.5% at just above 4.08V (some cells were showing 4.10V) It was at 92% SOC, Battery pack =393V
max det reduced from 9.0% to 8.5% at 100% after I turned the car off to unplug the charger.
I have seen much greater movement in these numbers recently that was not associated with charging to 100%.

Energy charged = 25.0 kWh for 91% (based on the BMS data) => Full pack 25/0.91 = 27.47kWh
Energy discharged = 23.9 kWh for 91% (based on the BMS data) => Full pack 23.9/0.91 = 26.3kWh

The energy charged figure is simple; it is the difference in cumulative energy charged before and after charging.
The energy discharged is the difference in cumulative energy discharged during driving minus the regenerative energy put back into the battery.

In my case the 200km driven included a significant mountain stretch. (up 1100m). The regenerated energy was 11.3kWh
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Birkeland
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:27 pm

I charged from 27% to 100% during the night to prepare for the calibration by driving the battery almost empty and charge it back up again. But when I woke up this morning, the values had allready changed:

Before charge:
Min deterioration: 4,9%
Max deterioration: 7,2%

After 100% charge:
Min deterioration: 3,7%
Max deterioration: 5,4%

JejuSoul: Will the battery calibrate further by me running the battery almost empty and chargeing it back up again as you described?

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Owner of a 2015 KIA Soul Exclusive, Titanium Silver

JejuSoul
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:53 am

Birkeland: the only way to know if the numbers will change again is to try it and see. Your numbers are already the best for any car we have tested so far. Don't be surprised by any change up, down, or not at all. I am not sure these numbers are that important taken as a single reading. Averaged over 6 months maybe. My car has jumped around by as much as 6% recently.

The other useful thing to do when driving down from 100% to zero is to monitor the Cumulative Energy Charged and Discharged counters. Even though my Deterioration numbers are worse than Elmil's currently I am able to get more energy into and out of a full charge. He has driven twice as far so that makes sense. He probably has some actual deterioration at 30,000 km. At 15,000km I probably don't. It will be interesting to see your figures.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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