Page 38 of 41

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:11 pm
by notfred
It has had a BMS reset, the CCC and CDC have dropped between the first and second samples. This was probably the dealer doing the updates for the firmware. You may find that the SOH drops back to what it was before.

I think you are overly cautious only charging at 6A, especially if you fast charge it at other times. If you think about when driving, 7kW is nothing.

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:18 am
by JejuSoul
notfred wrote:...I think you are overly cautious only charging at 6A, ....
I'm not so sure. The two cars on this thread that have the lowest deterioration numbers are the two that regularly charge at around 2kW. The sample size is too small to make any confident conclusion, but having a third car in that sample seems a good idea. I too am considering swapping out my E VSE that only charges at 32A to one that allows multiple settings (32A when I want to charge 'normally', and much lower when I am happy to let it charge all night or all weekend.)

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:11 pm
by ZuinigeRijder
Elmil wrote:The screenshot on the previous post made me check some statistics from my old 2015 Soul. The interesting numbers are the Max and Min Deterioration Cell numbers. They show Max det #2 and Min det #8.

My car had a change in deterioration numbers at 148 occations. The Min det was #8 in 76%, the Max det was #2 in 28% and 22% had both as above.

Coincidence..? Probably, but...

For me the max deterioration cells were mainly #1 till #6 and some #42/#43. The min deterioration cells were mainly #49, #59, #15

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:31 pm
by Oinq
notfred wrote:I think you are overly cautious only charging at 6A, especially if you fast charge it at other times.

This is the experience I had with my Peugeot iOn, on the iOn foruns there was some people doing this, and they had the lower deterioration.
Also on the iOn, deterioration was like a clock, it came down every 27 to 32 days, always the same amount.
In that Portuguese forum, people are very confident the heat kills the batteries.

I fast charge when/if I need to; on the iOn I fast charged 3 times in a year, I don't believe this is expressive for degradation.
If I need to drive more far away I take the Niro :)

In the moment I'm limited to my electric installation, I can't draw more than 10A from the plug where i'm connected, maybe this weekend I have the time to change the wires, and then I can go to the 28/30A the car supports. But I still plan to keep the 6A as my charging rule, higher if needed, but before raise the current I can increase the number of charging hours per day since I only charge about 5 hours; but with a short commute as mine I can have only 40% on Monday that the 80% will be caught up during the week. As an example I left the car yesterday in the garage with 54%, it charged to 69% this morning, I arrived home with 66%; so tomorrow morning will be close of the 80%

Well this is the plan, maybe you guys can show me I'm wrong and plans can be changed :)

Any spreadsheets someone would like to share?

Thank you for all the input

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:46 am
by JejuSoul
I have had two notable upward spikes in my deterioration numbers over the last four years. Both times the values initially spiked and inverted, but came back down again in the months afterwards. The Min and Max readings have not inverted any other time. Recently a German user has seen the same spike and inversion.

An old post of mine - Battery Ageing Model :- October 2016
I drove fast over the mountain 110km/h, decelerating hard before the speed cameras. Very unusual driving speed and style for my car.

And another one - Battery Ageing Model :- April 2017
There was a spike up in my readings a month ago. It occurred immediately after driving fast 100km/h over a mountain.
The Min and Max reading initially reversed. This is the second time I have seen this in 3 years.
Both times were driving fast over the mountain.
It is something I rarely do, so I doubt this is coincidental.

Am having a chat with German user ToyToyToy. His car has also shown the Min and Max reading reversed.
ToyToyToy wrote:Last week I was checking the values and was happy to see that Max-Det was 15.8%, which is almost the same as per end of December with 15.7%, although January was a bit cold over here (at night a few degrees below zero). Today, I was at a fast c harger (haven't been there for at least 2 months) and checked the values again: 18.3/18.3/18.4 (Max/Avg/Min). And yes, Min was higher than Max, which is very strange.
I was shocked to loose almost as much capacity as during the entire last year with 20,000 km. Hopefully, just the BMS is mis-calibrated and will recover after the next calibration.
JejuSoul wrote:...My conclusion is that driving very fast, or just fast up a steep hill causes high battery stress which can degrade the battery much faster than normal. This is not a problem if you only do it occasionally.
And yes I think the deterioration values on your car will go back down just like mine did.
ToyToyToy wrote:Now that you mention it.... just before I took the reading I was driving quite fast, 130-140 km/h, for 15 minutes or so, since we were late for an appointment. This probably caused the drop of the values.

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:59 pm
by bitterest
I'm coming to the end of my lease in May, so I thought I'd check out my battery's state before I decide what to do and contribute to the collective. Here's its info (HT to SoulEV2016 for the commentary's format that I borrowed):

Vehicle: 2015 Kia Soul EV (luxury model with Chademo option), in service as of May 2015, Manufacturer sticker shows 04/15 assembly

I conducted the 100% to <10% to 100% SOC procedure and used OBD Fusion for iOS and LELink adapter (I don't have an Android device) to gather these three measurements:

*Measurement 1
Odometer (km) 86964
Display SOC (%) 100
BMS SOC (%) 95
Max Cell Det (%) 23.5
Min Cell Det (%) 23.3
CEC (kWh) 1739.2 (I'm not sure why these are low?)
CED (kWh) 1675.2
CCC (Ah) not recorded
CCD (Ah) not recorded
GOM (km) 122
Travelled (km) 0

*Measurement 2
Odometer (km) 87083
Display SOC (%) 7
BMS SOC (%) 9
Max Cell Det (%) 23.5
Min Cell Det (%) 23.3
CEC (kWh) 1744.2
CED (kWh) 1705.2
CCC (Ah) not recorded
CCD (Ah) not recorded
GOM (km) 7
Travelled (km) 119.1

*Measurement 3
Odometer (km) 87083
Display SOC (%) 100
BMS SOC (%) 95
Max Cell Det (%) 20.7
Min Cell Det (%) 19.0
CEC (kWh) 1769.4
CED (kWh) 1705.6
CCC (Ah) 2413.3
CCD (Ah) 2849.5
GOM (km) 120
Travelled (km) 0

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada - pretty EV friendly. Rarely below 0C (coldest -10C once) and rarely above 30C. The vehicle is stored in garage at home and at work that usually does not fall below 10C or go above 25C. I don't do pre-heating or cooling.

Driving style:
- Mix of highway (100-125km/h) and city (40-60 km/hr)
- Typical weekday is 70km round trip.
- Typical weekend is 30-100km per day.
- My unabashed driving style is lead foot on the accelerator and feather on the break - EVs are fun, life is short, why hold back.
- I use auto for heater and AC to maintain 20C year round

Charging behaviour:
- I have the EVSEUpgrade, and am fortunate to do almost all my charging at work at about 2.5 kW for free.
-Weekday charging cycle: Arrive in the morning - charge to 100% by mid afternoon, leave early evening, arrive home with 75-80% SOC, park overnight at home no charging, drive back to work, arriving with 50-60% SOC. So, it has been at 100% daily for 2-4 hours.
-Weekend I'll keep it below 80% SOC if I do need to charge on our regular 7kW EVSE and do it at 2AM, but I try to hold out to arrive at work on Monday with >40% SOC.
-Chademo: Less than 10 times over the past four years, just haven't had need although we're fortunate to have many here in BC.
-Technical issues over its life: the on-board charger failed in February 2017 - had to wait a month for a replacement. Not fun.

So - any thoughts on how my stats compare to the cohort of other Soul EVs?
Any idea why my CEC CED are so low?

Thanks in advance, and do let me know if there's other information that I should be sharing...

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:50 am
by JejuSoul
bitterest wrote:...
So - any thoughts on how my stats compare to the cohort of other Soul EVs?

Your car is not doing as well compared to the other cars on this thread. - reason = your lead foot.
But you are doing way better than cars in places like Arizona and Texas - reason = BC climate is near perfect for EVs.

In the graph below your car is roughly marked with the purple cross. You're above the red warranty line, which means it won't qualify for a new battery.


Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:36 am
by Oinq
This last night I tried to force a calibration on the battery; no success.
5 days ago I used a fast charger to 94% and in the last 5 days I used the battery until yesterday I arrived home with 18%.
After some math, I raised the current from my EVSE from 6 to 12A and over night I took the battery to 100%
This morning around 6 it finished charging, but still no deterioration values.
I think my error was I haven't started with 100%.

I think I read somewhere the process is 100 lower than 20 and to 100% again.

My question is, must this be done in one day? Or since this morning I was on 100% I can take it to lower than 20 in a few days and then, back to 100?

I don't drive that much, so if it must be done in one day, I need today to make a bigger drive...

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 pm
by Oinq
I'm trying again today

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:04 am
by Oinq
So this time it worked good. For a calibration to occur we must start from 100%, go below 20%, and charge back to 100%.
I'm not really sure if they are real values, since the top 50% of the battery was on highway on 130km/h with very strong wind (>50km/h wind), the other 30% was already on more normal roads, 70 km/h country roads...

So my values to date: