Elmil
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:46 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:51 am

JejuSoul wrote:-
It is possible to use either cable on both cars.I haven't collected the torque data yet, but the obvious difference is that the 16A cable gets quite hot, if you use it on the Soul at 32A.

You will only get 16A through the 16A cable. The cable itself has a resistor (220 ohms for 32A, 680 ohms for 16A) connected between PE and PP, which tells the supplying side the current limit for the cable. The resulting charging current is decided by the lowest one of the outlet, the cable and the car. So a 16A cable used to charge a Soul EV from a 32A outlet will itself limit the current to 16A, even if the other parties support 32A.
Kia Soul EV 2015 / 115,543 km Sold
Kia Soul EV 2019

JejuSoul
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Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:34 am

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Here is the connector at the end of the 16A cable.

Image

Am currently using the 16A cable above to charge my Soul EV.
It is charging at 31.6A with 83.7 efficiency.

Image


I just changed the cable to a 32A cable and am continuing to charge

Image

Note the difference in efficiency. The 16A cable is 5% worse.
It loses energy heating up the cable. Even after only 10 minutes the 16A cable is warm when I unplug it.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Elmil
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:46 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:05 am

.
Either the cable or the Type2 power outlet must be failing in providing the security it should. Can you check the resistance between PP and PE on the Type2 connector of the 16A cable. If it's around 680 ohms then the cable should be ok, but the outlet is ignoring the cable restriction. If it's 220 ohms the cable is bad.

The whole purpose of the PP/CP arrangement is to provide this type of checks to ensure safe operation.

Image
Kia Soul EV 2015 / 115,543 km Sold
Kia Soul EV 2019

SoulEV2016
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:54 pm

On my Soul EV, restriction by resistor don't work, too.
I can only have 32A or nothing.

Image

only PWM signal restrict the current of the onboard charger.

a regular seller of part for EV only sell the 32A model of Type 1 ... because it has too many problems with the 16A model (don't work 1 case of 3).
Last edited by SoulEV2016 on Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

SoulEV2016
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:00 pm

JejuSoul wrote:Even after only 10 minutes the 16A cable is warm when I unplug it.


Be carefull, the cable is more resistance at heat than ... the connectors in the Type 1 plug.

Image
Image

That's why i use copper grease on my Soul EV.
http://www.graisse-belleville.fr/graiss ... 00504.html

I use this grease for long term solar storage battery at high current.

Image
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

JejuSoul
Posts: 1506
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Location: Jeju
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Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:31 pm

Elmil wrote:Either the cable or the Type2 power outlet must be failing in providing the security it should. Can you check the resistance between PP and PE on the Type2 connector of the 16A cable. If it's around 680 ohms then the cable should be ok, but the outlet is ignoring the cable restriction. If it's 220 ohms the cable is bad.
The whole purpose of the PP/CP arrangement is to provide this type of checks to ensure safe operation.

My connector is a 5 pin Type 1.
The only cars here with the 7 pin Type 2 are the Renault SM3 (Fluence) and the Tesl a Mod el S

It is not just my cable and my E VSE that work like this.
All the local council offices have a Ray EV and a free L2 charging stand.
They tend to leave the 16A cable permanently in place.
There is a sign saying please don't remove the cable!
I live on an island where theft is incredibly rare. No one would ever steal a cable.

My local council office is next to the library and opposite a draft beer pub. I have frequently opportunity charged my Soul EV there.
It always takes the full 32A despite being a 16A cable.
Here's a photo of my Ray charging there. Had to cross park because the two adjacent spots are blocked.

Image
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Elmil
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:46 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:50 am

.
It seems there are lots of bad charging stands out there. Obviously their PWM signal indicates 32A regardless what cable is attached. This is a serious safety issue.
Kia Soul EV 2015 / 115,543 km Sold
Kia Soul EV 2019

JejuSoul
Posts: 1506
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
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Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:26 pm

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Have been looking at the standards for charging cables.

The Mennekes system as used in Europe is very clear that there should be a resistor in the cable handle itself.

Image
The J 1772 standard is much less clear on this.
I have looked at the J 1772 SAE spec - http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/st ... ej1772.doc
I can't find reference to any resistors in the cable handle.

Here in Korea we have a 5 pin connector on both ends of the cable. I assume your cable is mixed. One 5 pin and one 7 pin.

Image

The person who seems most informed on these issues is Tony Williams of Quick Charge Power
He has an interesting post here - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 772.16783/
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1506
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:43 am

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Just saw this topic on the CanZe Forum - Resistors in charging cables

The AC charger cables have a resistor between protective earth (PE) and the proximity pin (PP) pin to indicate

that the plug is inserted
that the plug can therefore be locked (type 2 only)
the gauge of the cable, and thus the maximum current

Note that the PP pins are NOT wired through the cable. The most common resistor values and also those of your standard Renault cable are 220 ohms, corresponding to 6 mm2 and 32 amps continuous, and 680 ohm, corresponding to 2.5 mm2 and 20 amps continuous. These are per strand values and the power varies given the number of phases used.

These PP-PE resistors should be installed on both ends of the cable, which I had not realized before. Yesterday I helped a friend changing his home charger from a socket type to a fixed cable type, so that he didn’t have to get the cable from the trunk every evening. The cable came pre-wired with the resistor in the plug, but it didn’t work. Only when we installed a PP-PE resistor in the charger itself, indicating the cable was inserted on that end, the charger started the process. The other side effect is that if you measure the connectivity between the PP pins on your standard Renault cable, you’ll measure a confusing 440 ohms. That’s because both ends are wired to the ground lead with 220 ohm resistors.


There is an interesting comment after this. You can manually select one of two charging currents by putting an additional resistor with switch in serial with the existing one. Or in my case if I added the missing resistor to the 16A cable, I would be able to charge my Soul EV at 16A. At the moment my E VSE gives out 32A regardless of which cable is inserted. In summer heat I may prefer to charge at the slower 16A. Takes longer and is less efficient, but I think it causes less stress on the battery.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1506
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Comparing BMS data on the Soul EV with the Ray EV

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:09 pm

SK Rental took back my Ray EV today. They want to sell it because warranty has expired. They have given me an SM3 for the same price because they broke the contract early. Too expensive to fix out of warranty. Ray EV - 5 years old - 60,000km - 30% degradation

Image

The SM3 only has 13,500km.
SK guy says tourists don't like it.
I'm happy. Have just downloaded the CANZE app. Will add a link here to any comments I make about the SM3 on the CANZE forum.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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