notfred
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:57 am

I think you need to go to the top. Write an actual letter to the head of Kia Canada (find their name and address the envelope and letter to them) and mail it. Be very clear about what your experience has been, how you've enjoyed the car up until this point and what has gone wrong. Don't threaten them with legal action or press coverage or anything, just state your issue. All companies have an "Office of the Chairman" or similar that deals with these things, it's an end run around all the front line support. They will find your current complaint, but you are getting people higher up who have more of a vision of doing the right thing for the brand to take a look.

I had been thinking a bad sensor (or wiring / connections) when you mentioned that it would work above 15C ambient, but the timed charge missing the 80% stop makes me think that you have bad software - either wrong load or something went wrong during flashing.

Technically I think they need to get a list of all the software part numbers and versions that should be on your car and then go through your car verifying that, but you are going to need a Kia GDS connected to the dealer network to get access to those.

One thought, if you use something like Soul Spy or Torque, does it show the correct VIN? And does your VIN decode properly in terms of it being the "Luxury" etc?

2016Electric
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:34 am

Hi Notfred,

Yes, the VIN shows correct via the APP. I had considered that as well so I checked.
I am really thinking software problem at this point.
Yes, agree the next step is to write a letter to Kia, but I think in a last effort prior to that I will try another Kia shop that is EV certified to check the thing over, including GDS (it is hard to find shops that will work on this thing!)

2016Electric
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:49 am

JejuSoul wrote:-

Yes. Kia has behaved really badly.
I think you need to do some homework before paying for a lawyer.
The test Kia did is one devised by a lawyer not by a technician.
It seems Kia has already consulted their lawyers, and has chosen their strategy in advance.
They will claim that your car is working.
You need to find the legal definition of what constitutes a 'working' heating system.

As for trying to fix the issue yourself. It does seem to be a software glitch rather than any component fault.
It may be that the new update always has this software error or it maybe something the technicians added wrongly on your car.
There is no way for you to know, and no way for you to correct the software on your own.

The only suggestion I have is to warm the ambient temperature sensor above 15C and trick the heat pump software into working.

That your car cannot set a charge to 80% is really odd. That is a setting on the Navi screen. There is no software update for your car that removes this setting. It should be impossible for them to add a different Model Year's software by mistake. Can you post a screenshot of this, and a screenshot of your system settings.



Here is the screenshot of the revised timed charge options: (weird for a 2016)

https://imgur.com/gallery/r6U4fVC

ksoul2084
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:50 am

2016Electric wrote:
Here is the screenshot of the revised timed charge options: (weird for a 2016)

https://imgur.com/gallery/r6U4fVC


Very strange. My 2016 has the new SW installed and still retains the 80% charge option on the timed charging.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:09 pm

2016Electric wrote:Here is the screenshot of the revised timed charge options: (weird for a 2016)
https://imgur.com/gallery/r6U4fVC

That is not the screen where you can change the timer settings.
The settings option looks like this on my car (a 2015).

Image
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

2016Electric
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:25 pm

JejuSoul wrote:
2016Electric wrote:Here is the screenshot of the revised timed charge options: (weird for a 2016)
https://imgur.com/gallery/r6U4fVC

That is not the screen where you can change the timer settings.
The settings option looks like this on my car (a 2015).

Image



Ugh, I stand corrected.. You are correct. I hadn't adjusted it in so long that I forgot about the submenu.
I guess I was thrown off as that wasn't how I left it. The upper menu option was set ages ago to charge to 80 and the bottom to 100. Someone must have adjusted it at some point? Not sure how that happened, as it wasn't me. So scratch my earlier comment about the charging, but everything else remains. Car still won't run the heat pump under most conditions, and the BMS now allows fast charging past 84 without interruption.

I have made an appointment to have another dealer look at the heat pump and software in a few days and will report on what they find.

EVDee
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:02 am

I wish I could help with the major part of your issue.
The ability to charge past 84% came in a BMS update, so I'm guessing somewhere in the process this occurred. Maybe when they replaced your OBC? Regardless, that would explain that behavior.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:03 am

-
My best guess is that the first dealer messed up the update process when upgrading the firmware of the HVAC system.
They are supposed to update both the BMS and FATC together.
(The HVAC system is managed by an ECU known as FATC (Full Auto Temperature Control).)
I am betting they messed up.
If you can get the second dealer to check whether your car needs a FATC upgrade we will find out.

Image

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN: SERVICE ACTION: BMS/FATC OPERATION LOGIC IMPROVEMENT WHILE BATTERY CHARGING (SA427) - This bulletin provides the procedure to upgrade the Battery Management System (BMS) and Full Auto Temperature Control (FATC) software on some 2016-2017MY Soul (PS EV) vehicles, produced from May 21, 2015 through August 29, 2017, in order to improve air conditioning operation while the battery is charging.


-
Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

2016Electric
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:09 am

Hi Jeju,

Yes this is my thought (and hope) as well, as that should be an easy fix.

I did notice that on the paperwork I received from the service department in September, they indicated both the bms and fatc updates were applied (mind you, what is noted versus what was done may be two separate things - doesn't mean it was done properly).

Will let you know what they find.

2016Electric
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:52 am

As promised, the results.

The second dealer (mechanic) and I did an initial walkaround and demonstration of the non operation of the heat pump. At 14c ambient and a heat setting of 22c in the vehicle, all heat was produced by the PTC, which both the mechanic and I observed. He acknowledged this seemed incorrect, and took the vehicle into the shop.

After looking over the vehicle, he reported the following :

- No software faults with the vehicle (everything is up to date and appears to be the correct version)
- No apparent faults with the vehicle

I asked him about how he can explain the fact that the heat pump is not operating. He could not explain it, and was very careful in his response (to not directly acknowledge that the non operation of the heat pump is actually a problem). In fact, the paperwork I received does not address the functioning of the heat pump at all, similar to the first dealership response to this issue.

So there we have it. There is nothing Kia service seems willing or able to do to fix this. I now have a vehicle with an inoperative heat pump, which is consuming far more power than it should for heating (killing range in the process).

The only positive is that the second dealer did not charge anything for the inspection (which I found odd, as the vehicle warranty ended last month).

Does anyone have any suggestions? I am at a loss at this point as to how best to proceed.

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