irfca
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:14 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Battery University a good resource for battery info

Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:09 am

I came across some interesting articles and research on the website below, covering a wide range of topics from battery use in EVs, to battery charging, temperature and depth of discharge usage characteristics:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... vehicle_ev
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries

It is interesting to realize in Table 4 on the 2nd page referenced there, that with an 8 year "design" for EV battery life, that would lead to almost 3,000 charge/discharge cycles on the battery. To achieve that, it looks like the maximum cell voltage is reduced to achieve better longevity. With 192 batteries in our battery pack, they must be wired in a combination of series and parallel formats, to the equivalent of a series string of 96 sets of 2 parallel batteries, and a cell charging voltage of approx 3.95 VDC @ 84% charge (based on what I have noted as a charging voltage at a DCQC station of approx 390 VDC) ... which would indicate the batteries are only used to approx 60% (or less) of their fully usable capacity in order to achieve the approx 3000 charging cycles.

There is also lots of info on that website on cell phone battery tests and longevity ... all interesting reads for those who want to understand the batteries in our vehicles.
Kia Soul EV Luxury Onyx/Inferno Red Pearl 2-Tone.
Ordered: 16-Oct-2014 - Delivered: 16-Mar-2015

JejuSoul
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:51 pm

Thanks for the link - lots of interesting info.

This image helps me visualise why the Soul is advertised as 27kWh but has a real capacity of 30.5kWh
The spare capacity is hidden from the user at the top and bottom of the batteries charge.
Image
It also seems to show why the driver would initially see a very slow degradation in range.
The loss is hidden in the reduction of spare capacity.
Also once the spare has gone it is probably sensible to be more cautious charging between 20% and 80%.

Note the image is a hypothetical example not the actual description of the Soul's battery.
Edit: if the image fails to display click http://www.batteryuniversity.com/_img/c ... ge-web.jpg
Last edited by JejuSoul on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:01 pm

irfca wrote:With 192 batteries in our battery pack, they must be wired in a combination of series and parallel formats, to the equivalent of a series string of 96 sets of 2 parallel batteries.

Yes, I think you are right. According to the U.S. Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity the Soul EV has 96 cells.
We also know that the pack is built from 192 SK Innovation 38 Ah pouch cells with NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) cell chemistry.
The pouch cells are combined in pairs.

There's more details in the YouTube video here with Steve Kosowski. (Product Manager from Kia USA)

https://youtu.be/AtJ9GoYUPyU

This image is from the YouTube video above

Image
Last edited by JejuSoul on Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:21 am

From the Service Manual we can see how the 96 cells are laid out and numbered.

Image

This becomes useful when we use an onboard diagnostic (OBD) tool to view the voltages of each cell.
(Soul Spy has not yet been written, but this is the kind of detail I would want it to show.)
These images are from Kia's Diagnostic Software.

Image

Image
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JejuSoul
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:03 am

Here's a picture of how the batteries are laid out in a real car.
Stack of 14 under the front seat. 10 then 10 in the footwell between front and rear seats then 14 under the back seat.
It will be the same on the other side of the car. 96 cells in all. 2 pouches per cell.

Image
Last edited by JejuSoul on Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

SiLiZiUMM
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:40 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:17 pm

I guess JejuSoul wanted to upload this picture:

Image

I documented the battery info of the Soul EV in a canadian forum 2 days ago as well, I put some pictures from the service manual there :

http://menu-principal-forums-aveq.10973 ... 33967.html

Direct link to AVT testing (which are good) : http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml

Here's the specs from the manual:
Image
Pierre-Étienne Messier
Directeur Adjoint AVÉQ (http://www.aveq.ca/) - Capitale-Nationale
Québec, QC, Canada
KIA Soul EV 2016 Titanium Silver, Luxury + Sunroof

OBC Failure? Please fill this survey! https://goo.gl/forms/lOpXcoDjC3wJply12

JejuSoul
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
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Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:13 pm

SiLiZiUMM: the image I posted is an actual photo of the battery layout.
It is hosted on a Korean blog and does not always display here.
I edited the post to use a copy of the image I uploaded to tinypic.

Of particular interest - the position of the batteries is in the center of the car. They will not be hit by either a front or rear collision.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

LucaBerns
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:51 am

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:18 am

As per the data you shared i think you are saying correct. By the standard of Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity the Soul EV has 96 cells.We also know that the pack is built from 192 SK Innovation 38 Ah pouch cells with NMC cell.The pouch cells are also combined in pairs.

goev
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Mandal, Norway

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:14 pm

Wonder why they say the battery voltage is 350V, when a 4.06V x 96 is 389.76V.
My car, when fully charged, has a voltage of at least 395V, which means a capacity of more than 29kWh.

I love my Soul EV :D

Birkeland
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Battery University a good resource for battery info

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:24 pm

goev wrote:Wonder why they say the battery voltage is 350V, when a 4.06V x 96 is 389.76V.
My car, when fully charged, has a voltage of at least 395V, which means a capacity of more than 29kWh.

I love my Soul EV :D


Hi :)

How do you know the voltage is at least 395V? If this is correct, than it is very interesting :D
Owner of a 2015 KIA Soul Exclusive, Titanium Silver

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