SoulEV2016
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:07 am

No news because, 1 month without use (charge every 15 days for 12h, no problem with 12v ACID battery).

Image
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:36 am

3 years and 3 months old the Kia Soul EV reached 70.000 km.
Bought 1 year old with 10.000 km on the ODO meter. No idea what was the deterioration at that time, but I suspect already 8% or so.

Latest readout:
km: 70239
Avg Det: 13.8
Max Det: 15.4
Min Det: 12.1
Cumulative CED: 12473 kW

However, looking at the past data, it looks the deterioration is about 15%.
Note that after 1 year the deterioration was already 10%, so I do not know how the car was driven before, but the consumption was much higher (around 20kWh/100km) than I drive (around 15 kWh/100 km).

Here are the gory details:

Code: Select all

Date   km   Avg Det   Max Det   Min Det   Max Cell   Min Cell   BMS   SOC   CEC   CED   kWh/km   Comments
2014-08-28   0   0.0   0.0   0.0                        Assume start with 0 date of start of use
2015-09-17   10060   8.0   8.0   8.0                        Bought the car, do not know the deterioration. Just a guess.
2016-01-17   18709   10.8   11.6   10.0   3   15   55.00   57.00            First readout with Torque
2016-01-27   19421   10.4   11.1   9.6                        
2016-01-28   19493   12.3   13.4   11.1   43   51                  
2016-02-01   19777   9.2   10.2   8.2                        
2016-02-10   20419   9.2   10.0   8.4                        
2016-02-20   21131   9.4   10.4   8.4                        
2016-03-04   22057   11.0   11.6   10.4   3   8   32.00   32.50            
2016-03-07   22271   11.0   11.6   10.4   3   8   18.00   17.50            
2016-03-07   22271   10.4   11.1   9.6   3   83   95.00   100.00            
2016-03-11   22555   11.1   11.8   10.3   9   15   46.50   48.00            
2016-03-14   22769   10.4   11.1   9.6   9   8   95.00   100.00            
2016-03-21   23268   10.1   11.0   9.1   43   49   95.00   100.00            
2016-03-25   23553   11.6   12.6   10.6   42   59   95.00   100.00            
2016-04-01   24051   12.9   13.7   12.1   42   15   95.00   100.00            
2016-04-08   24454   10.4   11.1   9.6   9   1   95.00   100.00   5062   4951   0.202461765   start measure CEC and CED
2016-04-12   24620   10.4   11.1   9.6   9   1   95.00   100.00   5088   4977      
2016-04-13   24722   10.4   11.1   9.6   9   1   95.00   100.00   5105   4994      
2016-04-14   24876   10.4   11.1   9.6   9   1   14.00   13.50   5108   5020      
2016-04-15   24876   9.5   10.2   8.7   43   15   95.00   100.00   5132   5020      
2016-04-26   25745   9.5   10.2   8.7   43   15         5284.2   5166.5      
2016-05-04   26310   9.5   10.2   8.7   43   15   95.00   100.00   5377.4   5256.6      
2016-05-06   26478   9.5   10.2   8.7   43   15   5.00   3.50   5382.1   5286.2      
2016-05-06   26478   8.1   8.8   7.3   2   8   95.00   100.00   5408.2   5286.5      
2016-05-25   27802   8.1   8.8   7.3   2   8   95.00   100.00   5620.1   5494.5      
2016-05-26   27969   8.1   8.8   7.3   2   8   15.00   14.50   5623.5   5519.8      
2016-05-26   27969   9.2   10.1   8.2   48   83   95.00   100.00   5646.8   5520.3      
2016-05-30   28191   9.8   10.8   8.8   9   59   95.00   100.00   5682.9   5556.5      
2016-06-20   30535   9.5   10.5   8.5   9   49   78.00   82.00   6073.7   5941.4      
2016-07-01   31340   9.5   10.5   8.5   9   49   95.00   100.00   6207.2   6064.6   0.161719431   
2016-07-12   31846   9.5   10.5   8.5   9   49   95.00   100.00   6287.1   6143.1   0.161268939   
2016-07-15   32010   9.5   10.5   8.5   9   49   12.00   11.00   6291.1   6171.4      
2016-07-15   32010   10.3   11.3   9.3   9   15   95.00   100.00   6315.4   6171.7   0.161553732   
2016-07-25   32662   9.6   10.2   9.0   2   1   95.00   100.00   6416.9   6269.8   0.160672515   
2016-09-08   35992   10.5   11.2   9.8   43   84   95.00   100.00   6882.3   6714.5   0.15284278   
2016-09-16   36165   10.5   11.2   9.8   3   15   81.50   85.00   6971.9   6804.8   0.15829562   
2016-09-19   36361   11.5   12.2   10.7   9   15   95.00   100.00   7012.8   6841.1   0.158738557   
2016-09-21   36525   11.5   12.2   10.7   9   15   17.00   16.50   7018   6868.6   0.158860078   
2016-09-21   36525   11.1   12.0   10.1   32   15   95.00   100.00   7041.1   6868.9   0.158884931   
2016-09-26   36525   11.2   12.0   10.4   3   15   95.00   100.00   7086.7   6912.5   0.162496893   
2016-10-03   37364   11.2   12.0   10.4   3   15   14.50   14.00   7165.8   7013.3   0.159744384   
2016-10-03   37364   11.2   12.0   10.4   2   49   95.00   100.00   7189.5   7013.6   0.159767622   
2016-10-21   38705   14.2   15.2   13.2   43   59   12.00   11.50   7413.2   7244.1   0.160908006   
2016-10-21   38705   13.0   13.8   12.2   2   59   95.00   100.00   7437.6   7255.4   0.161700933   
2016-10-27   39000   13.0   13.8   12.2   2   59   13.00   12.50   7467.4   7308   0.162037674   
2016-10-27   39000   11.8   12.7   10.8   9   59   95.00   100.00   7491.3   7308.4   0.162065173   
2016-11-08   39844   13.1   14.1   12.1   9   61   95.00   100.00   7647.5   7457.9   0.162891488   
2016-11-09   39901   13.1   14.1   12.1   9   61   63.50   66.00   7648.7   7468.3   0.162963682   
2017-01-09   43944   12.9   13.6   12.2   2   59   95.00   100.00   8441.6   8239.8   0.168742945   
2017-01-31   45483   12.6   13.4   11.8         95.00   100.00   8657.3   8457.4   0.166741167   
2017-02-08   46158   14.1   15.0   13.1   42   62   53.00   55.00   8873   8675   0.171581275   
2017-02-20   47103   13.4   14.2   12.6   2   15   95.00   100.00   9065.3   8851.6   0.172219524   
2017-03-10   48319   15.1   16.0   14.1   42   59   16.00   15.50   9266.6   9068.8   0.172545569   
2017-03-11   48319   13.8   14.8   12.8   9   59   95.00   100.00   9289.7   9069.1   0.17255814   
2017-04-06   49992   13.8   14.8   12.8   9   59   15.00   15.50   9559.5   9342   0.171939854   
2017-04-06   49992   12.5   13.3   11.7   9   15   95.00   100.00   9582.7   9342.3   0.171951602   
2017-04-24   51326   13.7   14.6   12.7   9   59   30.00   30.50   9793.5   9558.3   0.171453558   
2017-05-01   51691   12.7   13.7   11.7   9   59   95.00   100.00   9882.4   9623.9   0.171564416   
2017-05-30   53593   12.7   13.7   11.7   9   59   16.00   15.50   10172.3   9929   0.170836336   
2017-05-30   53593   11.7   12.7   10.7   9   59   95.00   100.00   10195.4   9929.4   0.170850063   
2017-06-07   54172   11.7   12.7   10.7   9   59   16.50   16.00   10273   10028.1   0.170842587   
2017-06-07   54172   12.5   13.3   11.7   3   49   95.00   100.00   10296.1   10028.4   0.170852682   
2017-06-14   55116   12.5   13.3   11.7   3   49   18.00   17.50   10430.7   10181.9   0.170598787   
2017-06-14   55116   12.5   13.4   11.5   9   59   95.00   100.00   10453.2   10182.2   0.170608571   
2017-06-27   55955   0.0   0.0   0.0   0   0   50.00   52.00   0.5   4.3   -0.15703311   OBC reset
2017-06-28   55993   14.0   15.0   13.0   2   35   95.00   100.00   19.2   10.1   0.152631579   
2017-06-29   56158   14.0   15.0   13.0   2   35   15.00   14.50   22.6   36   0.156157635   
2017-06-29   56158   12.2   13.0   11.4   2   15   95.00   100.00   45.9   36.6   0.1591133   
2017-07-10   57163   12.2   13.0   11.4   2   15   16.50   16.00   179.1   184.4   0.149089404   
2017-07-10   57163   11.4   12.6   10.2   9   49   95.00   100.00   202.2   184.7   0.149337748   
2017-07-22   58337   12.1   12.8   11.3   1   59   15.50   15.00   364.1   363   0.150587741   
2017-07-23   58337   10.8   11.7   9.8   9   59   95.00   100.00   387.2   363.3   0.150713686   
2017-07-24   58495   11.7   12.7   10.7   9   59   95.00   100.00   411.9   388.5   0.151259843   
2017-07-29   58995   11.0   12.1   9.8   9   59   95.00   100.00   488.1   463.9   0.151184211   
2017-08-09   60091   14.1   14.7   13.4   9   68   17.50   17.00   633.1   628.5   0.150918762   
2017-08-10   60091   11.8   12.5   11.0   2   25   95.00   100.00   655.8   628.9   0.151015474   
2017-08-31   61743   12.0   12.9   11.1   3   8   18.50   18.00   890   873.7   0.150207326   
2017-08-31   61743   12.6   13.3   11.8   2   61   95.00   100.00   912.5   874   0.150259157   
2017-09-09   62760   14.4   15.6   13.1   3   8   18.00   17.50   1054.6   1034   0.151315209   5 days in a row below 19%
2017-09-10   62760   12.9   13.9   11.8   9   59   95.00   100.00   1077.1   1034.3   0.151359295   
2017-09-11   62898   15.2   15.6   14.7   1   15   95.00   100.00   1098.3   1055.8   0.151447501   
2017-09-13   63010   13.9   15.3   12.5   3   8   95.00   100.00   1117.2   1074.1   0.151637137   
2017-09-14   63170   13.2   14.2   12.1   3   59   95.00   100.00   1139.2   1096.4   0.151365211   
2017-10-09   65211   12.6   14.4   10.8   7   15   45.00   46.50   1455.1   1417.8   0.152711755   
2017-10-16   65730   12.6   14.4   10.8   7   15   16.00   15.50   1528.6   1499.1   0.152920716   
2017-10-16   65730   12.9   14.0   11.7   9   59   95.00   100.00   1551.6   1499.4   0.152951407   
2017-11-03   67047   14.7   15.3   14.0   2   8   95.00   100.00   1783.3   1722.1   0.154868374   
2017-11-14   67824   14.0   15.2   12.8   21   8   95.00   100.00   1921.4   1853.7   0.155817676   
2017-11-15   67943   15.8   16.3   15.3   2   59   95.00   100.00   1940.3   1873.5   0.155922589   
2017-11-22   68430   15.8   16.3   15.3   2   59   15.50   14.50   2007   1960.1   0.156777555   
2017-11-22   68430   14.3   15.2   13.4   9   59   95.00   100.00   2030.3   1960.5   0.156809619   
2017-12-02   69151   15.6   16.6   14.6   5   62   94.00   98.50   2166.3   2091.2   0.158146408   
2017-12-08   69529   15.6   16.6   14.6   5   62   95.00   100.00   2236.7   2159.7   0.158788861   
2017-12-15   69774   15.6   16.6   14.6   5   62   95.00   100.00   2283.9   2205.6   0.159295173   
2017-12-21   70239   13.8   15.4   12.1   7   12   50.00   52.00   2355.5   2290.5   0.160053206   70.000 km


And here some graphs:

Image

Image

Image

SiLiZiUMM
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:40 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:06 pm

On my side, here is the graph for my car so far (we just passed the 40 000km mark yesterday). We are now just under the 100% under SOH mark.

Image

We are also "stuck" on the same SOH and deterioration values since the beginning of November....

Second graph shows min and max deterioration values, and trendline for both.

Image
Pierre-Étienne Messier
Directeur Adjoint AVÉQ (http://www.aveq.ca/) - Capitale-Nationale
Québec, QC, Canada
KIA Soul EV 2016 Titanium Silver, Luxury + Sunroof

OBC Failure? Please fill this survey! https://goo.gl/forms/lOpXcoDjC3wJply12

Kish
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:15 am

First off, I want to say thanks JeJu for putting together the Torque PIDs, they have been incredibly useful in getting more technical info out of the car!

I recently purchased a 2015 Soul EV, roughly 37k miles. I'm the second owner and live in SoCal. The car is a lease return and the original owner lived in Northern Cali and drove the 37k miles. When I initially bought the car, the GOM read around 70 miles, but as I drove it more, it dropped 70-> 65->60->55->50 miles. There seemed to be some serious battery degredation. I decided to do a range test to see how far I can drive on a full charge (and how much kwh can be pulled out). Here are my results.

Here are Torque readings from before the range test:
Image

The test was done at 80mph on flat highway with no wind, cruise control on. Low battery warning came on at ~45mi (when range went to ---). Ultimately I was able to drive ~51 miles until I hit 1% (last few miles @ city speeds). Consumption was around 2.5mi/kwh on the dash.

Here are Torque readings from after the test:
Image

Image

Torque reading from full charge to 100% the next day:
Image

Image

Please only look at the 1st row (other rows is from charging a dffferent EV). Note that EVSE kwh reading is from the wall. It is a very constant 6.6-6.8 kW charging speed, until the last 20-30 mins, then it tapers off. Example from a more typical charge after commute:

Image


Looks like I did both things I shouldn't do with the Soul EV battery: drive at fast speeds and drive down to low %, ha! Did I really mess up my car by doing this? 20.4 / 27 kwh usable means 75.5% SOH, not 79.4% SOH? (20.4 kwh * 2.5mi/kwh = 50mi on GOM seems correct.)
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:31 am

-
Hi Kish, welcome to the forum.
I think you will soon be getting a free replacement battery, so it doesn't matter what you do to this already heavily degraded one.

But when you do get the new battery and want it to last a long time, avoid regularly driving fast for long distances.
It's fine once in a while when you're in a hurry to get to the airport for instance. But the stress put on the battery by daily commuting 55 miles on the freeway at 75mph is going to age the battery fast.

I don't know if this is your actual car, but there is a thread that describes this exact experience and the problems caused.
27,000 miles 86-mile range; my Soul EV commute is over

Edit
The link above was originally wrong. I fixed it above.
It had been pointing here - Soul EV capacity warranty
The capacity referred to is the usable 27kWh not the total 30.5kWh
Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Kish
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:57 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome! :D

Looks like you're correct on the battery pack replacement (or repair), I'm well under the 10 yr/100k limit for the warranty. However it does clearly state that the SOH must be under 70% for Kia to take action. I'm currently at 20.4 / 27 kWh usable means 75.5% SOH, so do you think Kia will bother to take any action? Or is SOH calculated on total capacity (30 kWh) in this case it would be 20.4 / 30 kwh = 68% SOH.

I was just concerned about further degradation as the one-time simple drain test caused SOH loss from 83.1% -> 79.4% (3.7% loss). If I keep doing this, I'll just make it worse? 8-) . Once (or if) I get a new battery pack replacement, I'll be very careful not to drain the battery to low % as well as cruise at high speeds for extended period of time.
Last edited by Kish on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:25 pm

-
You didn't damage the battery doing a range test. It just calibrated. The BMS algorithm adjusts when you fully charge to 100%, because it can get out of alignment when you haven't done so for a while. Am guessing it had been sitting on a lot somewhere degrading in the summer heat before you bought it.
There is a thread about calibration here - Battery Calibration

The battery capacity warranty is based on usable capacity not total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Kish
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:30 am

Ah gotcha. Thanks for that link about the BMS calibration, the article on Battery University was insightful. I assumed Li-Ion batteries were exempt from the "memory effect", unlike older battery chemistries that need to be deep cycled for best performance. In this case we're talking about the BMS calibration, not the physical Li-Ion battery. Yep, my car was sitting at the dealer's lot for 2 months before I bought it (it wasn't driven a single mile!), so the BMS being out of alignment makes sense.

UVO app itself says to charge to 100% at least once a month:
Image

Since I'm sitting at 75.5% SOH, Kia is probably not going to replace the battery...yet, I'll have better luck after the battery pack has degraded 5.5% more. In the meantime, I might as well bring the car into a Kia dealership to see what their SOH measurement is, and see how it compares to the Torque values. I also may end up doing a few more range tests "just for fun" ;)
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

notfred
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:18 am

There is a BMS update that fixes a problem with preheating at very cold (-25C) temperatures. If you take it in to a dealer and they apply the update then that resets the BMS counters and your battery will show 100% SOH until it actually learns the battery condition again.

Just wanted to give you a heads up in case when you take it to the dealers they apply the update and they tell you that the issue is fixed, it isn't.

Kish
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:43 am

Ah, good to know! In this case, I may need to make multiple visits to the dealer :?
2015 Soul EV+ | 47k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 52k miles

Return to “Technical Discussions”