Elmil
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Re: Comparing layout of the Soul EV battery with other EVs

Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:02 am

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The "Consolidated 12V battery" concept in the I oniq hybrid seems interesting. Maybe something similar Tesl a is aiming for in the Model Y. Any details about the implementation?
Kia Soul EV 2015 / 84000 km

JejuSoul
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Re: Comparing layout of the Soul EV battery with other EVs

Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:33 am

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The I oniq Hybrids that are being tested with our BMS codes are both 2016 models which have a regular 12V battery.

There is an interesting article here about the removal of the traditional 12V battery. - How the Hyundai Ioniq Ditched Its Traditional 12V Lead-Acid Starter Battery

The two cars this applies to are the Hyundai I oniq Hybrid and the Kia N iro Hybrid.
The PHEVs and the EVs still have traditional 12V batteries.

These new hybrids have the ability to jump start themselves, but cannot be used to jump start another car!

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And here is how the new 12V Lithium battery is laid out adjacent to the Lithium battery pack.

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Last edited by JejuSoul on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JejuSoul
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Re: Comparing layout of the Soul EV battery with other EVs

Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:13 am

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The 64kWh N iro EV battery layout is completely different from the current I oniq.
I do not think this new battery will ever fit into the I oniq.
In fact it looks much like the layout in our Soul EVs

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From my comment on the previous page -

The battery pack is much further back in the I oniq. This is probably because the roof is so much lower, there is less space under the seats

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JejuSoul
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Re: Comparing layout of the Soul EV battery with other EVs

Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:00 am

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Two interesting videos showing the disassembly of the B olt EV battery pack by Professor John D. Kelly at Weber State University (WSU).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3G8JGsEjPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssU2mjiNi_Q

This is the sticker seen on the B olt EV battery from the first YouTube video above
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In the second YouTube video above we see that the B olt's pack is made up of eight 5.94 kWh modules and two 4.75 kWh modules for a total capacity of 57.02 kWh. Presumably that means eight modules with ten cells and two modules with eight. Each of the 96 cells would have a capacity of 594Wh. We don't know if that number is total capacity or the usable capacity or even perhaps a nominal rating.

There has been discussion on this both at the N issan L eaf site and at the T esla site
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18907&start=1850#p519226
Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

Previously on this thread I had noted -
1/ The 2017 B olt battery pack is 60 kWh and weighs 435kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 138 Wh/kg
2/ The I oniq EV battery pack is 31 kWh and weighs 271.8kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 114 Wh/kg

I have now realised why GM for the B olt has chosen a more energy dense battery cell than Hyundai. (or GM for the V olt)
From a comment by Jeff N on the T esla Forum
Jeff N wrote: ...it’s more about cell construction than cell chemistry. They optimized the thickness of the cathode, anode, and conductive copper and aluminum collector foils in the B olt cells to get the highest energy density whereas in the Volt they aimed to enable higher power capability.
The cell specifications, such as we know them from unofficial sources, are quite different. The B olt cells may be max 2C continuous discharge with a 10 second peak discharge rate of 3.5C whereas the Volt cells may have been rated for 10C continuous discharge. In return for that lower design power, B olt cells appear to be quite a bit more energy dense.

The cell chemistry in the B olt means the fast charging will be slower and taper earlier. But it has higher energy density = a bigger battery in the same space.

There's an interesting article by Jeff N here comparing the battery cells in the Jaguar I-Pace and the B olt EV . - Jaguar and Chevy have LG in common
Interesting to see that the Jaguar I-Pace also seems to have favoured a cell chemistry that allows greater power as opposed to the B olt EV that seems to favour greater energy density.

This battery cell is the one used in the Chevy B olt EV. - see Inside the factory building GM's game-changing Bolt EV

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Last edited by JejuSoul on Mon May 07, 2018 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JejuSoul
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Re: Comparing layout of the Soul EV battery with other EVs

Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:09 am

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Here's some photos of the Kona EV I took at EVTrend Motor Show in Seoul last week. Plus a couple I found on the web.
The cutaway model on display is of the 64kWh version.

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I counted the cells! There are 288. The cells are laid out 3 in parallel to form a 3 cell group, 96 groups in series.
Under the floor are 6 modules of 10 cell groups, under the back seat are 4 modules of 9 cell groups.
(6*10*3) + (4*9*3) = 288

The nominal voltage of each cell is 3.7V, the rated capacity of each cell is 60Ah
Thus the nominal capacity of the 64 version is 3.7*60*288 = 63.94kWh

I didn't see a 39.2kWh Kona EV on display. But I did see an image of its battery pack.
The 4 modules under the seat are empty.
Under the floor are 6 modules of 15 cell groups. But for this version the cells are laid out 2 in parallel to form cell pairs.
Hence this version has 180 cells.
For the math to work out the nominal voltage of each cell has to be 3.63V
I don't know why it is lower than the 3.7V of the 64kWh version.
3.63*60*180 =39.24kWh

The official specs are here - https://www.hyundai.com/kr/ko/vehicles/ ... ifications
KONA Electric 복합 5.6km/kWh(도심 6.2km/kWh, 고속도로 5.0km/kWh) | CO2 배출량 0g/km | 축전지 정격전압(용량) : 356V(180Ah) | 공차중량 : 1,685kg | 1회 충전 주행 거리 - 복합 406km(도심 444km. 고속도로 359km)

KONA Electric_Lite 패키지 복합 5.8km/kWh(도심 6.5km/kWh, 고속도로 5.1km/kWh) | CO2 배출량 0g/km | 축전지 정격전압(용량) : 327V(120Ah) | 공차중량 : 1,540kg | 1회 충전 주행 거리 - 복합 254km(도심 282km. 고속도로 221km)

356V / 96 = 3.7V : 60Ah*3 = 180Ah
327 / 90 = 3.63V : 60Ah*2 = 120Ah
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JejuSoul
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Re: Comparing layout of the Soul EV battery with other EVs

Mon May 07, 2018 7:05 am

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The N iro EV went on show at the 5th Jeju EV Expo -

https://youtu.be/A0bzYl-pF3g

The battery capacity is identical to the K ona EV, and also externally the battery pack case is identical to the K ona EV.

Both are the same size and shape, and have ridging showing the module layout.

Image

Both have a cover under the front passenger seat to access the Power Relay Assembly.
Update - I looked more carefully, this is wrong.
The Power Relay Assembly is on the drivers side, so what is under the front passenger seat. Am guessing the BMS.

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But it seems the two cars have different battery cells.
The K ona EV has NCM622 cells from LG Chem that are optimized more for power density.
The N iro EV has NCM811 cells from SK Innovation that are optimized more for energy density.

see - http://www.etnews.com/20180309000211
..The N iro EV is more of a family car - bigger more comfortable - but the acceleration output through the battery management system (BMS) control is relatively low ...
...
The K ona EV cells however allow higher-powered driving. Its body is also smaller, and its agility excellent, which is an advantage for sports driving...
...
In the end, it is analyzed that N iro EV is beneficial to achieve stable driving performance and K ona EV has advantages in higher-powered driving.


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Have found some images on the web, that are better than the ones I took.

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