Kish
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:33 am

I can see how it can be confusing. The SOH values are something that we compute locally based on the PIDs the car provides-- it doesn't mean its 100% accurate. As JejuSoul mentions in the BMS thread:
The diagnostic data provided by the BMS does not include the SOH. It only has the min and max deterioration data from the total capacity.
After nearly 3 years of monitoring this data we were able to conclude that the SOH number as checked by a Kia service tech is actually a computed value. It is the average of min and max, taken away from 110. At Kia service any number greater than 100 is shown as 100%.


Furthermore:
For the next two years you will have to ignore these 'false' positives.
In the graphic above SOH is really 100%, SOH in kWh is really 27kWh and Lost SOH is really zero.


So in my case, SOH is really 100% (at 110% shown), SOH in kWh is really 27 kWh (at 29.7 kWh shown), and the Lost SOH is really 0% (at 10% shown). Remember that with my old (original) battery pack, Torque was showing anywhere between 79.4% to 91.7% SOH, even though the actual value measured by the dealership was 66.5% SOH.

Now these values have changed in Torque (after the DCFC experiment), I'm guessing that the actual values have also changed to "something" below 100% SOH. Think of these as "relative" measurements.
2015 Soul EV+ | 43k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 33k miles

Kish
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:05 am

alexank wrote:
@Kish Thankyou for making the time to share this very interesting reading

A couple of things spring to mind
I wonder if the previous owner overheated the battery regularly as well by doing regular long trips, the cumulative result may have been the degradation you inherited.

I also wonder if yours is a one off, maybe the fan etc in the boot is faulty, air flow restricted etc?


YW! Yes, I think your theory about how the previous owner used the car is reasonable. As mentioned in the battery aging thread:

JejuSoul
...when you do get the new battery and want it to last a long time, avoid regularly driving fast for long distances.
It's fine once in a while when you're in a hurry to get to the airport for instance. But the stress put on the battery by daily commuting 55 miles on the freeway at 75mph is going to age the battery fast.


Higher speed = more amps pulled from the battery pack = more heat build up = battery deterioration.

I'm guessing most people reporting on this forum come from countries with slower highway speed limits and/or live in rural areas. That's why there hasn't been too many reports of degradation. I've noticed that most of those that do report deterioration is from AZ/CA! (where people drive 75 - 80mph regularly, not to mention higher ambient temps). I see my battery temps reaching 105F+ (fan level 5) easily just driving at highway speeds for a while, even without any DCFC sessions. Are others seeing this? Maybe I should check that cooling fan in the trunk.
2015 Soul EV+ | 43k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 33k miles

JejuSoul
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:40 pm

ZuinigeRijder wrote:I do not understand the "Lost SOH %" and "Lost SOH kWh". If would expect this to be 0.5% and 0.1 kWh (27 kWh = 100%, 29.7 kWh = 110%)...

Everything is correct. I will answer this on the Torque thread. - Setting up Torque to show BMS data
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

AnOnyMzB
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:28 am

Very interesting read. Thank you. I'm currently in the process of getting a new battery on my 2016 Soul EV. I don't have all the data you have.
I'm in Los Angeles area and do mostly freeway speeds, about 70 miles roundtrip per day. I'm the original owner of my vehicle. In about January, I noticed noticeable degradation in my actual driving range. During my regular service visit to the dealer, I told the service guy. He tried to tell me that a software update that he was going to install would fix it by "allowing the car to accept a better charge." This didn't make any sense to me. That service rep never followed up with me and wasn't even there when I picked up the car to go over what work had been done. I am skeptical whether he did any work that day. I think he was full of $hit.
I continued driving my regular commute with range decreasing more and more, to the point that I was well below 50% battery by the time I got to work (35 miles) and would have to use a DCFC every day, just to make it back home. I kept at it until, finally, in early April, I decided that I, absolutely, had to get it checked.
Took it back to the dealer (CarPros Kia Glendale). Scheduled with a different service rep. He told me the EV tech would have to check it out. Later that day, he called me to tell me that they'd been in contact with Kia and needed to do more testing over the next few days. He offered me a loaner car at that point, which I turned down because I had a vehicle available to me.
After a few days, he called me back to let me know that the battery was, indeed, degraded and would be replaced and a new battery was on order. He offered me a loaner car again, which I declined again.
After about a week, he called me again to tell me the battery was on order, but there wasn't an ETA and that the batter was on back-order. He offered me a loaner a 3rd time and I accepted. They setup a rental with Enterprise and got me an ICE Kia Soul.
It has now been 2 full months since I dropped off my car. The battery has not arrived yet. I'm still driving the ICE loaner car, paying up the nose for gas every 5 days. My daily commute has increase about 45-60 minutes each day because I can't use the HOV lanes.
Somebody from corporate contacted me, told me he would be handling my case and he would be the point of contact for me, but he didn't have any information other than "the battery is back-ordered". He did tell me that once my car was fixed, he would discuss "good will" options with me.
You lucked out getting your battery replaced so quickly. As of today, I'm going on 65 days since I last saw my car. :cry:

Kish
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:23 pm

Hey AnOnyMzB, first off congrats on getting Kia HQ approval for your battery replacement!

I think getting to that point is at least 80% of the work, as you mention dealers like to beat around the bush with the "software update" nonsense. Getting a dealer to actually perform the battery SOH test and for HQ to approve the replacement was probably the biggest time sink for me. It took me a good month+ to actually get an appointment with a Soul EV certified dealer, and for them to do the test.

And yeah it really does suck to be without your car for 2+ months, especially if you were relying on the HOV stickers to help you cut commute time. I guess I lucked out on them having a replacement battery for me lying around in a warehouse somewhere in the U.S. It's possible Kia may have finally run out of new 30 kWh battery packs for the 2015-2017 Soul EVs, and thus have to produce/import one from Korea. Either that or they may be waiting/finishing up someone else's Soul EV battery pack replacement in the U.S. and are refurbishing their pack to give back to you. Who knows, maybe you'll get my old battery pack all fixed-up. Hang in there!
2015 Soul EV+ | 43k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 33k miles

Kish
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:54 pm

I want to provide an update on my car after exactly 4 months and 3k miles later:

Image

Image

Things are looking pretty good! SOH is back to being 110% (after being down to 109.5% last time). Likewise, Max Det is down to 0.1% on cell 1 (after being at 1.0% at cell 2 last time). Unfortunately (or fortunately?) there's nothing too exciting to report.
2015 Soul EV+ | 43k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 33k miles

RubberToe
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:38 am

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:53 am

Kish wrote:I originally posted about my Soul EV in the battery aging thread, but I'm re-posting here to keep my story separate and easier to find. It's my hope that my experience will be insightful for your own situation.

I purchased a 2015 Soul EV, with roughly 37k miles in Dec 2017. I'm the second owner and I live in SoCal. The car is a 3-year lease return and the original owner lived in Northern Cali and drove the 37k miles. When I initially bought the car, the GOM read around 70 miles, but as I drove it more, it dropped 70-> 65->60->55->50 miles. There seemed to be some serious battery degredation. I decided to do a range test to see how far I can drive on a full charge (and how much kwh can be pulled out). Here are my results.


Kish,
Just read this entire thread, glad to see that you received a brand new battery. I do have a question for you though, since "our" battery is also starting to see some degradation.

In looking at the battery warranty, I read it and thought that it only covered the original owner. But here it is verbatim: "The Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery (“EV Battery”) Capacity warranty coverage period is 10 years or 100,000 miles from the Date of First Service, whichever comes first, for capacity loss below 70% of the original battery capacity. This warranty covers repairs needed to return battery capacity to 70% of original battery capacity"

Note there is a bit more here, but with regard to the battery warranty, there is no mention of having to be the original owner. So it looks like anyone who has a 2015 Soul EV, is covered under the warranty, is that the case? It certainly looks like it from your scenario.

My specific situation is that I was the original Leasee, and my wife purchased the car off the lease. I'm here because I was worried that with her not being the original owner we might have an issue with the battery replacement should we end up needing one. It looks like that is not the case.

Since we plan on keeping the car as a commuter car for the long term, battery replacement or not, I will also do whatever is required to tap into the "Torque" measurements that you have been reporting. Is all I need an OBD dongle of some kind and some software? I'll research that in any case.

Thanks again for your detailed write up. I'm in SoCal too. If I ever end up getting a battery replacement I owe you a nice dinner for your contribution here! ;)

RubberToe

Kish
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm
Location: SoCal, CA

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:01 am

That's a great question. You have nothing to worry about as the "second owner".

You're right, there's no mention of having to be the original owner for the battery warranty. However, the Soul EV warranty clearly states that the original owner + all subsequent owners are fully covered for any component of the EV system, including the battery pack. If the dealer gives you any attitude about this, just print this out and bring it with you.

This is the OBD reader I am using, cheap and works well. For help on setup + running, head over to the Torque thread.
2015 Soul EV+ | 43k miles
2017 Bolt EV Premier | 33k miles

RubberToe
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:38 am

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:36 am

OBD device arrives tomorrow, I'll read up on the Torque thread and have some fun over the long weekend.

My wife parks outside at work so this may be contributing to the battery degradation.

RT

RubberToe
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:38 am

Re: 2015 Soul EV: My Battery Replacement Story

Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:50 pm

After some trial and error, I now have this captured on my Android phone. My car currently charges to about 72 miles on the GOM at 100% charge. This is with a 97% charge on the battery. Any idea what I'm looking for here or what to track? The OP stated that his GOM dropped pretty rapidly from roughly 70 miles down to roughly 50 miles. Is that what I should be looking for?

I used to routinely get up to high 80's range, until about a year ago when the wife started taking the car to work and leaving it in the sun all day. May have said previously that maybe this is what is causing the recent degradation. I initially thought it was just dropping in the winter, but it didn't bounce back this summer.

Image

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