JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Mon May 13, 2019 8:10 pm

-
Just to clear up some confusion about what is being shown on the OBD apps.

SOH is State of Health % of the usable capacity. There is a part of the battery that the BMS does not allow you to use.
Part of this buffer will be lost before any of the usable capacity. That is why the State of Health % may be shown as greater than 100%.

SOC is State of Charge % of the battery in its current state. A brand new 2016 battery will show 100% when there is 27kWh in it.

There is no known way to get the number of times you have charged the car using L1 or L2. Similarly we don't have a way to count the number of times you have fast charged. This is available in L eafSpy for the Nissan L eaf but not for the Soul EV.

Battery cycles can be estimated by dividing the Cumulative Energy Charged counter by the size of the battery. Note this value includes regenerative charging.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

beanman
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Wed May 15, 2019 10:02 am

OK, Thanks all for the help, clarifications, and advise thus far.

Now hope someone can help me decide whether or not to buy this particular soul ev based on some of these findings.

So the battery was just about completely drained, and the dealer didn't have a cable yet to charge it, he got one yesterday and it's already about 50%+ charged showing ~57km of range available.

I noticed immediately that the ambient internal temperature sensor must be messed up. It shows -14 degrees Celsius when I powered up and kept slowly went to -18 according to the SOULEVSPY software and what I saw on the dashboard.

Some of what I believe the pertinent stats are (happy to send the whole .csv file)... can't seem to get it to "replay" on my app yet.
(these stats were all taken before the dealer got the cable and started charging later in the day)

ELM327.Voltage_V
10.2
car.odo_km car.ambient_C
142331.7 -14

ldc.out_DC_V
11.2

ldc.out_DC_A
0

ldc.temperature_C
9

battery.SOC_pct battery.SOC_decimal_pct
2.5 2.9

battery.DC_V battery.DC_current_A
321.2 0.1

battery.accumulative_operating_time_s
6767845

battery.accumulative_charge_power_kWh battery.accumulative_discharge_power_kWh
7974.4 7551.8

battery.inlet_temperature_C battery.min_temperature_C battery.max_temperature_C battery.module_temperature1_C battery.module_temperature2_C battery.module_temperature3_C battery.module_temperature4_C battery.module_temperature5_C battery.module_temperature6_C battery.module_temperature7_C battery.module_temperature8_C
9 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 (and this goes on)

battery.auxiliaryVoltage_V
11.2

battery.accumulative_charge_current_Ah battery.accumulative_discharge_current_Ah
21347.5 21216.9

battery.available_charge_power_kW battery.available_discharge_power_kW
90 16.43

battery.cell_voltage0_V battery.cell_voltage1_V battery.cell_voltage2_V battery.cell_voltage3_V battery.cell_voltage4_V battery.cell_voltage5_V battery.cell_voltage6_V battery.cell_voltage7_V battery.cell_voltage8_V
3.34 3.28 3.26 3.24 3.3 3.34 3.38 3.38 3.32 (and it goes on between 3.2 and 3.34 for most cells)

battery.max_cell_detoriation_pct
31.2
battery.max_cell_voltage_V
3.4
battery.max_cell_voltage_n
43

battery.min_cell_detoriation_n
43
battery.min_cell_detoriation_pct
17.2
battery.min_cell_voltage_V
3.2
battery.min_cell_voltage_n
86

calc.battery_SOH_pct
85.8

Tire Pressure gauges appeared all 0

So, should I buy this car? 85.8% SOH, cell voltages as above, not sure what to make of the max/min cell voltages and detoriations

Really appreciate any feedback and additional interpretation!

Thank you.
Last edited by beanman on Wed May 15, 2019 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

warren55
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Wed May 15, 2019 2:32 pm

I am hardly an expert in these matters, but here's my take:
The degradation seems pretty acceptable considering the mileage, but you are looking at some significant degradation. Is it really cheap?
Because it is going to need a new battery pack at some point and you'll be paying for it, not Kia.
No one seems to know what a battery pack costs yet, but estimates seem very high compared to a Nissan Leaf.

beanman
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Wed May 15, 2019 6:23 pm

I actually feel the same way.
Still checking out a few things, like how it will read when fully recharged, that ambient sensor issue, etc.., my own mechanic will check the brakes/wheels/tires....... maybe I should find a list of non-electric motor parts that should be checked...

But yes, it's cheap and otherwise in good condition with no body damage, etc...

At 20km per day or 6000km / yr, and even 2% degradation per 10,000km, I could likely get years out of it before needing to replace the battery.

I was thinking replacement cost would be similar to the Leaf's so thanks for reminding me that it could be double!

One day I hope they could change out the pack/cells like the leaf360 project.

Just to restate it's one of the 2016 Teo cabs from Montreal that went under and sold #s of leafs/souls evs/teslas at auction in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, etc....

warren55
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Wed May 15, 2019 6:34 pm

20km per day is pretty similar to what my commune is, about 15 miles. Even in cold weather it should be good for a couple days commute, so if that works for you, it could be a bargain commuter for many years. Just don't take a lot of side trips on the way home!

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Wed May 15, 2019 8:07 pm

-
I agree that this car will be okay for a 20 km commute for many years to come.

The battery warranty ends at 160,000km in Canada. It looks like you will miss that deadline.
The cost of replacing the pack is probably not worth it, if you have to pay for it yourself.

I would guess that this car would have an actual range of 110km in summer and 70km in winter.
But to make it last for a long time you want to use the middle of range.
Keep the state of charge between 20% and 80%.

------------------------------
Edit: I corrected the warranty from 150,000km to 160,000km
Last edited by JejuSoul on Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

notfred
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Thu May 16, 2019 6:37 am

I'm going to agree with the rest, as long as it is cheap and given that you have such a short usage commute then it could be well worth your while. When it comes down to it, a 2016 Soul EV is still a nice place to sit in during the commute!

One thing to add to the list of things they need to fix - they need to replace the 12V battery. It was sitting at 11.2V with only 10.2V seen at the OBDII adaptor. They will probably just want to get away with charging it up, but that battery has now been deep discharged and will die shortly. It does seem that a lot of the cars have the 12V battery from the factory die after about 3 years - mine did as well. I replaced it with a standard one from Total Battery.

ksoul2084
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Thu May 16, 2019 11:06 am

Hi all, first post. :)

I just purchased one of these ex-taxi 2016 Soul EV+ models on a copart auction out of Toronto myself. It seemed like a reasonable deal for the $ but I'm certainly taking a leap on this since I have no concrete data on the mileage or SOC, etc. for my car (wasn't provided in the auction details and the car is being shipped so don't have it yet). So this information is very helpful and pretty much matches my rough expectations. There was another 2016 on auction with documented 103,000KMs so actual mileage could vary a bit.

From what I've read your strange temp readings, etc. *could* be related to the low 12v battery. Seems like a lot of the car's systems get wonky when 12v is low. I would definitely plan on replacing it.

Another point of clarification is my understanding is that in Canada the electric drivetrain components, including the battery, are covered under warranty for 96 months or 160,000KM. So with your mileage expectations you should have a couple of years anyway before you pass that mark and go off warranty. I didn't see anything in the warranty excluding commercial use, taxis, etc. either.

One note of caution from what I've read is that it seems like once the battery pack degrades past a certain point (probably not much below 70%) it tends to "fall off a cliff" and will end up failing in a way to make the car unusable. So don't expect to leverage graceful degradation for too long.

Once I receive my car I will post the details here for interest's sake.

beanman
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Thu May 16, 2019 3:04 pm

Hi all,

The plot thickens. I had a chance to take another reading from the car an hour ago.
Was planning on taking it to my mechanic tomorrow to check out all the non-ev stuff.

So I'm hoping the 12V battery is just messed because now (after the dealer charged the ev battery to 99%) it's still showing 67km range, same as he told me range was at at roughly 50% charge.

soulspy shows the actual percentage charge to be about 67% but also that the display charge (as on the dashboard) at 99%

Good news is that the cell voltages are now about 4V each instead of 3.2V

Here's the current readings on top, prior reading (prior to charging) under

range.estimate_km
66
0

battery.SOC_display_pct
99
1

battery.SOC_pct
94.5
2.5

battery.SOC_precise_pct
66.34765625
0.14453125
(How should this relate to battery.SOC_display or battery.SOC)

battery.DC_V / battery.DC_current_A
394.7 / 7.3
321.1 / 0.1

battery.accumulative_charge_power_kWh
8002.2
7974.4
(This shows it has been charged 27.8Kwh from empty)

battery.auxiliaryVoltage_V
14.3
11.1

battery.available_charge_power_kW / battery.available_discharge_power_kW
51.42 / 90
90 / 16.43

battery.max_cell_voltage_V / battery.max_cell_voltage_n
4.12 / 1
3.4 / 43

battery.min_cell_detoriation_pct
17.2
17.2

battery.max_cell_detoriation_pct
31.2
31.2

battery.DC_V / battery.DC_current_A
394.7 / 7.3
321.1 / 0.1

So I'm attaching the csv file in hopes someone can decipher some more tidbits and send back info.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm thinking this from the SoulSpy Thread:
In my experience, the BMS only adjusts the SOH value when the car has been charged to near full capacity, and is driven to near empty ( < 20% SOC). Depending on how long ago this last happened, and what the battery experienced in the meantime (high temperature, high power driving, or extensive time at high SOC), the adjustment may be large or small.


Thank you in advance

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Thinking of getting a higher mileage 2016

Thu May 16, 2019 9:02 pm

ksoul2084 wrote:..One note of caution from what I've read is that it seems like once the battery pack degrades past a certain point (probably not much below 70%) it tends to "fall off a cliff" and will end up failing in a way to make the car unusable. So don't expect to leverage graceful degradation for too long.

No. I don't agree. I have 2011 Hyundai BlueOn with a very seriously degraded battery pack.
If I drove it hard and fast then yes it may "fall off a cliff".
But I drive it very gently. I have a 10 km commute that I drive at a steady 50km/h.
Technically it is a 50km/h limit and there are plenty of 50km/h speed cameras, so I'm not breaking any rules.
But yes, I am the slowest car on the road!
So far I have not noticed any deterioration since I bought it 3 months ago.

Having this car though does help me understand why many cars will "fall off a cliff". Many drivers will 'push' their car harder as it degrades in order to achieve the same performance as when it was new. This will degrade the battery ever more quickly. I will write a lengthy post to explain this on the battery ageing model thread.


-------------------------------------------------

beanman. Don't worry about battery.SOC_precise_pct. That is not a correct value. I have already complained to the author of soulspy that keeping a bogus PID displayed will just confuse users.

I agree that the 12V battery will probably need replacing.

A true test of this car is to drive it. That is more important than any numbers that our apps can display.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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