JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:50 pm

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Am re- posting the warranty info for the Battery Capacity Warranty. It is this that has the 70% limit.
It applies to the car not the first owner.

The warranty manuals are here.
USA: 2017 Soul EV Warranty Manual
Canada: 2016 Soul EV Warranty Manual
UK: Warranty Terms and Exclusions

The Korean warranty is 10 years, 160,000km to 70% SOH.
The United States is 10 years, 100,000 miles to 70% SOH.
The Canadian warranty is 8 years, 160,000km to 70% SOH
The United Kingdom is 7 years, 100,000 miles to 70% SOH.
Europe is 7 years, 150,000km to 70% SOH.
Last edited by JejuSoul on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

guiacan
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:59 am
Location: QC, Canada

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:45 am

for my previous data points, refer to that post
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=434&p=8387#p8387

2018-09-30
odo : 22459 km
SOH : 27,2 kWh (100,9%)
det (min/max) : 8 / 10,2
ccc/cdc : 4506 / 4588 ah
cec/ced : 1652 / 1643 kWh
optime : 392
batt temp : 12 C

2018-11-04
odo : 24053 km
SOH : 27,5 kWh (102%)
det (min/max) : 6,8 / 9,2
ccc/cdc : 5578 / 5697 ah
cec/ced : 2047 / 2042 kWh
optime : 498
batt temp : 3 C
outside temp : 4 C

2019-02-23
odo : 27739 km
SOH : 27,5 kWh (102%)
det (min/max) : 6,8 / 9,2
ccc/cdc : 8801 / 9058 ah
cec/ced : 3268 / 3259 kWh
optime : 845
batt temp : 0 C
outside temp : -8 C

2019-07-06
odo : 33955 km
SOH : 28,1 kWh (103,2%)
det (min/max) : 5,1 / 8,5
ccc/cdc : 12923 / 13286 ah
cec/ced : 4789 / 4773 kWh
optime : 1271
batt temp : 26 C
outside temp : 23 C

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:38 am

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guiacan - thanks for the data.
I have copied your data into my excel table, and adjusted the values for the BMS reset.
The trend line for your car is very similar to another car in Quebec (Siluzium's) for which we have a lot of data for.
If this continues it will add to the data we are getting that the batteries do not last as well in an occasionally extremely cold climate.
Note - the worst climate for any EV without proper TMS is an extremely hot climate like Phoenix, Arizona.

My car shown in blue in the chart is not one of the best we are tracking, merely average.
The best cars are mostly in Northern Europe which has a much cooler summer than I do.

But your car may well improve its trend. The initial values are bad from the time it was a demo car before you bought it.
Another car in the Netherlands (Zunige Rider's) started badly because of this, and is now one of the best.

Image

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Oinq
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Now with the weather nice and warm I decided to force a calibration on my battery.


My SOH jumped back to almost 110%; it's now in 109.6%

The interesting part is, as you guys might remember I'm the "crazy" guy that recharges his battery with the lowest possible current; 6A.

With Ambient temperatures around 25°C

Image



My cell temperature map is not that different; reading taken 10 minutes after recharging.

Image


This comes reinforce my theory (and experience from my older Peugeot iOn, where we concluded in other forum that heat kills batteries) that I might be in the correct path where recharging the slowest possible rate is healthy, countering Kia's opinion where we should not use the "trickle" charger to regularly recharge the car; I'm not using it, but I have set my OpenEVSE to 6A.

Of course the down side of this is, I took 26h to go from 16% to 100%. Not many people can afford to do this.

Code: Select all

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GHPRH6iS98wNhViDA


Soul EV 2016

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:32 am

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Here's some screenshots of the official Kia battery check.
These cars have all been recently bought second hand.

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1. Quebec, 79,000km, 99.4% SOH, Link to French Canadian Facebook thread.

Image

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2. Jeju, 76,000km, 84.8% SOH

Image

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3. Oregon (originally Georgia), 42.7% SOH, battery to be replaced under warranty.

Image

-----------------------------------------------------

There is a car in the Netherlands with very similar stats to the American one just above. - Soul Spy? Thread
These 2 disastrous readings are very disturbing when considering the long term health of our batteries.
Particularly because the Netherlands is not a hot climate.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JeroenE
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:19 am

Yes, that's the Soul I drive since September 2015 (the car is from August 2014). Like I mentioned before I always found the range less than on the car I had driven for testing.

My onboard charger failed in September 2016. I had swapped the granny charger with a coworker who had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Due to location of the outlets and his inlet on the car his granny charger was too short. The garage wouldn't replace it under warranty because I didn't use the Kia granny charger.

There was some back and forth between my boss and the garage and it wasn't fixed until the end of December. All that time I had to fast charge the car as that was the only way to charge that was left.

I didn't really notice a big deterioration then.


In May 2018 my engine broke. I heard a noise when driving on the highway but could still drive. It made a lot of noise when driving 50km/h but above that you didn't hear much. According to the garage I could still drive to them but once they had driven the car I wasn't allowed to drive with it anymore. Then it took four months and four shipments before they finally had an engine that would actually fit in my car.

As I understood they actually needed to make pictures and video before Kia in Korea was able to send the right engine.

After I got my car back I began noticing deterioration. Of course, winter was coming and that always meant less range. In the spring the range didn't improve. I went back a few times but nothing they did helped. Last May I was more or less fed up but they made a last change claiming the brakes had been stuck and they performed a firmware upgrade. That meant everything was reset and the car was showing 150 km range again.

Of course that didn't help either. I made a few trips where I kept track of the odometer and the percentage the car shows. I could drive about 25 km from 100 to 84%. After that I could drive 35 km till 30%. The first part would mean a total range of about 150 km. The second part would mean a range of 64 km. In a few days teh car was down to a range of 90 km.

So I went back, they did the battery check and I could get the battery replaced under warranty. They will be doing this next Thursday.

I don't know why that battery check wasn't done sooner. Apparently a battery check can't be logged in their system and they can only make a hardcopy. They said I should have these from earlier but I don't. I never saw one from my car. I'm sure I would have remembered if I did.

My commute is 90 km one way and in the last weeka I have been needing to do a quick fast charge on tlroute to get to work or home. Actually the fast charging is no way slower than it used to be. I'm lucky to get 35kW but that quicky slows down to around 25kW.

Anyway, maybe a rambling post but I think the main problem has been that my car wasn't used while the engine was broken. I don't know for sure, but my guess is the garage hadn't been keeping the battery charged. In fact it was the only time they had charged my battery to full when I got my car back. In hindsight they said they charged my car because it was "empty". Perhaps the battery slowly depleted and went way too low in voltage?

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:40 am

JeroenE wrote:I don't know why that battery check wasn't done sooner. Apparently a battery check can't be logged in their system and they can only make a hardcopy. They said I should have these from earlier but I don't. I never saw one from my car. I'm sure I would have remembered if I did.


I have to ask explicitly to have the SOH readings and I get a hardcopy then. The figures are then in the same range as Torque Pro is measuring for my Kia Soul EV of August 2014. I think the number plate is almost the same with JeroenE and myself. Last time measure my Max Deter. was 17.9 % and Min Deter was 15%. So my minimum SOH is 92.1 %.

How many kilometers have been driven? Mine around 113.000 km now.
Last edited by ZuinigeRijder on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

JeroenE
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:16 am

ZuinigeRijder wrote:I have to ask explicitly to have the SOH readings and I get a hardcopy then. The figures are then in the same range as Torque Pro is measuring for my Kia Soul EV of August 2014. I think the number plate is almost the same with JeroenE and myself. Last time measure my Max Deter. was 17.9 % and Min Deter was 15%.

How many kilometers have been driven? Mine around 130.000 km now.
I recall our number plates don't differ much. Our vinnumbers are also near each other.

I'm currently at 155k km, I drive the car currently as little as possible because of the range issues while it used to be our main car.

Oinq
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:33 am

I have never heard a so terrific story about an EV Soul...
I suspect you have a really bad dealer there.

Code: Select all

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GHPRH6iS98wNhViDA


Soul EV 2016

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:33 pm

JeroenE wrote:...I could get the battery replaced under warranty. They will be doing this next Thursday.
...I'm currently at 155k km...

I thought the warranty in Europe was 150,000km. not true?

In England the warranty is 100,000 miles (approx. 160,000km) and 7 years - WARRANTY TERMS AND EXCLUSIONS
Presumably Holland is the same.
EV Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery

The Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery warranty covers a minimum capacity for a period is 84 months or 100,000 miles from the date of first registration, whichever comes first. This warranty covers repairs needed to return the battery capacity to at least 70% of the original battery capacity. Where possible, the original EV battery components will be repaired and will be returned to the vehicle. If unrepairable, the EV Battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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