notfred
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:59 pm

Check your warranty booklet, I believe it is going to vary based on where in the world you are. Mine was covered for 3 years, and of course failed shortly after that!

edzee3
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:56 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:44 pm

My warranty book says "original equipment battery" warranty is 24-mo. and unlimited miles.
Mine still working at 4+ years. I checked with a battery load tester and it tested weak. Easy decision to replace.

Found a replacement at Costco; Interstate "fitment code 39" Group "121R" for $100. Local Costco had to order it for me.
Odd that Amazon does not offer this battery.

However! Amazon did list battery for my 2010 Prius (ACDelco, made in Korea) and did deliver free; no hassle. And more odd, Costco does not carry battery for my Prius ?

Thx for comments.

Ed
Ed
'15 Soul EV+, '10 Prius

FLKiaEV
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:03 am

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sat May 23, 2020 4:52 pm

I know this is an old topic, but I recently bought my first EV, a used low mileage 2016 Kia Soul EV+, and I would like to replace the 12V accessory/aux battery with a lithium equivalent such as this one: https://www.ecodirect.com/RELiON-RB20-1 ... J0QAvD_BwE

A guy on YouTube replaced the SLA 12V in his Fiat 500e electric vehicle with that exact battery and has apparently not had any issue in over 2 years (and they are supposed to last about 10 times longer than SLA of similar specs).

Has anyone else replaced their 12V SLA accessory battery with a lithium one? If so, what has your experience been?

By the way, here's the video of the guy replacing his Fiat's battery (nice guy): https://youtu.be/X_0lFn9YFNg

Thanks in advance!
Russell from Florida USA

EVDee
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sun May 24, 2020 6:43 am

I'd imagine the biggest factor to consider when replacing your 12V battery is the conditions it will be subjected to. Far as I know, the traditional batteries are more cold resistant vs lithium. So while I'd love to replace mine with a lithium battery, the fact that my car is parked outside all the time, and -25C (-13F) is normal for us in the dead of winter here - I figure I'm better off with a traditional battery on that fact alone.

However, seeing as you're in Florida? I think I'd go for it when it came time to replacing the 12V battery you have now, but not before it fails.

If you're looking for piece of mind, I would suggest getting a small portable battery booster. I bought one 2 years ago and it has proven extremely useful. Prior to the Soul, I had a Prius which had a 12V gremlin that would come and go randomly, but thanks to that little booster I could just connect it up, start the car, disconnect the booster, and go. No needing to ask for help, or positioning another car to get a boost, etc. It's also nice to be able to boost others without involving your vehicle and risking damage.

One thing to keep in mind is that both the Prius and the Soul operate in the same regards - the 12V just gets the car started and once in "Ready" mode the HV battery is engaged thus the 12V battery isn't actually handling the load. It's still not a good idea to keep a dead 12V battery in operation. On the Prius you'd lose fuel economy as it would spend energy trying to charge up the 12V battery, same is true with the Soul except now you'll be losing range.

FLKiaEV
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:03 am

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sun May 24, 2020 8:08 am

No worries on the temperature issue. According to the website:
"Temperature Tolerant 2.5X more efficient operation at low temperatures. Safely operational up to 149°F (65°C )"

The only issue I have is whether or not the vehicle's built-in charger will charge it correctly. I believe so, based on the guy in the video who has had his for over two years with no issues, but just wanted some more examples and/or opinions.

There are also a number of other really desirable qualities to this battery compared to a lead acid:

Safety Inherently safe chemistry. PCB/BMS provides extra protection.
Drop-In Replacement Available in standard industry sizes. (<-- This gives me confidence, too)
Lightweight 50-60% less weight than lead-acid equivalent.
Longest Life Up to 10X longer cycle life than lead-acid equivalent.
More Usable Capacity 25-50% more capacity than lead-acid equivalent.
Constant Power Full power available throughout discharge. Voltage does not drop like lead-acid.
Temperature Tolerant 2.5X more efficient operation at low temperatures. Safely operational up to 149°F (65°C ).
Charging - Fast & Safe Highly efficient charging. Can fully charge in 1-3 hours. Built-in overcharge protection.
PSOC Tolerant No damage from partial state of charge operation or storage.
Long Shelf Life Low self-discharge so battery maintains state of charge.
Maintenance-Free Plug, play and charge. No watering.
Non-Hazardous No gasses emitted.
Installation Flexability Can be installed upright or on its side.
Customizable Easy to customize for your size and power needs.

Russell
Kissimmee, FL

EVDee
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sun May 24, 2020 9:04 am

Well actually when you dig into the data sheet it states that it'll discharge at upto -20C but charging isn't happening until 0C - which makes sense and is expected for lithium batteries.

Again, if your current battery is functioning fine - what's the point of swapping it out for this battery?
The current 12V battery is also maintenance free, so that's not an advantage now is it?
Neither is the higher energy density when your HV battery is doing the work and the 12V only does 2 seconds of work at the start.

However, if you got money to spend and just want to tinker, go for it.
But if you're wanting piece of mind, then I'd spend the money on the battery booster I mentioned before.

I was looking at this route when I first got my Soul because I'm interested in camping and love to tinker. Without a doubt if someone wants to run 12V accessories and/or add solar in the mix - using such a battery makes perfect sense. Higher energy density, lower weight, better charging efficiency - what's not to like? Well if you just leave the car on, none of that matters.

In the future if I do go this route, I'd probably keep the old 12V battery and swap it back in as the temperature drops. However for now, I don't think many Soul EV owners will benefit much, if any, by "upgrading" to a 12V lithium battery, unless they plan on doing some other things with their car, or if these become cheaper than the traditional battery.

As for the vehicle charging it correctly, looking at the data sheet it states that it has a BMS and will automatically cut off charging when it's outside of parameters, so you should be perfectly fine in that regard. Hope that helps.

FLKiaEV
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:03 am

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sun May 24, 2020 9:17 am

The main reason I would want to swap it out is I have been stranded way too many times in my life (ICE cars) with a dead battery, and lithiums last far longer and have those other advantages. With a lithium accessory battery the charge stays at or near 12V until it reaches about 10% remaining capacity, whereas a lead acid battery slowly drops voltage which at some point will not be enough to engage the relays that start the EV. Temperature here in Florida is rarely an issue, so no worries there.

As for cost, the Relion is expensive - about $300US - but others I've seen are around $150-$170 which is not really that much more expensive than a lead acid equivalent (usually $90 - $120) or an AGM which is even more expensive (but also more reliable than regular SLA).

Thanks for the input and recommendations. I do have a booster in the garage for those "just in case" moments (that I was hoping I would never need again! LOL).

Russell
Kissimmee, Florida

EVDee
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Sun May 24, 2020 12:34 pm

FLKiaEV wrote:I do have a booster in the garage for those "just in case" moments (that I was hoping I would never need again! LOL).


Not too useful in the garage though when you're not there ;) What I was referring to is one of those small portable ones you charge up then throw in the glovebox or under the seat so it's there when you need it (or someone else). I'm not sure what this forum's policy is on outside links, but if you search on Amazon for NOCO Boost Sport you'll get an idea of what kind of device I'm talking about. Ironically it's lithium chemistry as well, but is rated for a higher amperage than the one you've linked to, and can be used as a USB powerbank - all for $67 USD.

I would say that when your 12V battery dies, then go ahead and pull the trigger on a lithium 12V battery replacement. However, if your 12V battery is still doing its job without issue - it seems like a waste to swap it out for no other reason than - this one is better. Plus you already have a garage charger, that should help keep your current one going longer, assuming it has some advanced features to help prolong the life of the battery like mine does.

In the end, it's your car, your money, and your time. I'm just saying the in the interest of the 3 R's (Reduce, Reuse, Recycle) that perhaps another path will prove to be more productive before going that route.

FLKiaEV
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:03 am

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Mon May 25, 2020 7:04 am

Ah, yes, I've seen those and that does make a lot of sense. I figured you meant like if I suspected the 12V battery was not up to snuff (but before an actual failure) I could put this on, etc. But this makes more sense. And once the vehicle is started the 12V isn't needed anyway so I could at least get to a place to buy another battery, etc. I could probably even use it multiple times since it doesn't need to "crank" anything.

Ironically, just within the past 2 or 3 days I was watching a YouTube channel called "Project Farm" where this guy tests various things against other things or on their own, such as "Can you use bacon grease to lubricate an engine?" and then he does (very) thorough testing, sometimes with surprising results. The most recent episode I saw from him was testing which portable power booster was best. Interesting coincidence! Here's that video: https://youtu.be/JN8A2nIMUWA

Thanks for the info!

Russell
Kissimmee, Florida

EVDee
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: 12V Battery Replacement ?

Tue May 26, 2020 5:55 pm

That guy! Haha, a couple weeks ago I found his channel after looking up Seafoam and instantly subscribed. I'm surprised I hadn't watched this one before. It was interesting to say the least, but I'm a little curious if he used some of those boosters correctly? Mine for example has a boost mode where you leave it on the battery for awhile until it beeps, then attempt to crank the engine over. If that fails there's an override to directly feed the 12v from the booster to the vehicle and reattempt it again (usually works then)- to which I did not see him use when he tried doing those quick cranks. Regardless, great channel and content.

Personally I would imagine having both the portable battery booster and then a battery charger at home, you could go quite awhile on a bad 12v battery before needing to replace it. I'd imagine the annoyance of boosting it and reconditioning it would cause you to change it out before it dying would. :lol:

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