Oinq
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:02 am

let us know! :) :mrgreen:

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Soul EV 2016

JejuSoul
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
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Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:41 pm

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There's a really interesting blog post with a lot of great analysis / data here - What can 6,000 electric vehicles tell us about EV battery health?

They have a fantastic online EV Battery Degradation Comparison Tool

However I am skeptical about their results, particular for the Soul EV.
An image from the Geotab data showing SoulEVs from 2017 and 2018

Image

This is interesting. We have no data for degradation from the 2018 Soul EVs at all. Kia removed the Min and Max deterioration counters, so I'm wondering what exactly Geotab is measuring. Also we don't know if they are using SOH of total capacity or usable capacity. There is no mention or vision in their graph of a 10% buffer at the top.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Omar
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:08 pm

I did not replace any cell yet, The workshop did not give any guarantee about the improvement I will get after replacing the cells, in addition the cost became around 800$.

While my car SOH dropped to 59.9%, the range is around 100 - 110 Km's in this cold weather.

So I found another car workshop!, This one seems more professional. This shop offers also 40 kWh, and 64 kWh batteries for Kia Soul EV's!. These batteries are Hyundai Kona ones. The smaller one is sold for 5,000 $ while the bigger one for 7,000 $. The 40 kWh battery could get 168 miles after installing it in a Soul EV.

I am thinking to get the 40 kWh battery and keep 2 year more, or to repair mine then get a Kona Electric or a prius prime 10 months later. Still not sure!

Now in the Jordanian market, there are many Souls that have their batteries degraded sharply. I can see that around 2 thirds of the cars offered for sale (around 30 cars usually) actually have degraded batteries.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:07 am

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I took my white car to the main Kia service center in the city today for a battery replacement.
There were multiple stacks of crates containing new batteries. I counted 36. All for the Soul EV.

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Going there the 50km trip took 50% of the old battery.
Returning the same journey took 22% of the new battery.

I will post more details later.
2016 Soul EV+ Battery Replacement - Remanufactured?
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Oinq
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:36 am

Omar wrote:Now in the Jordanian market, there are many Souls that have their batteries degraded sharply. I can see that around 2 thirds of the cars offered for sale (around 30 cars usually) actually have degraded batteries.


I'm curious about the prices. Do they advertise cars with degraded batteries?

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Soul EV 2016

Omar
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:12 am

There are around 15 cars with degraded batteries. Their prices start from 11,000 dollars up to 14,500 dollars. Good cars prices are around 17,000 dollars.
I visited the car shop yesterday and discussed with him how to fix my car.
He agrees with me about the main reason of Kia souls batteries degredation. It is the high regenerative power!. Clearly the soul battery does not like high charging power. If your terrain is is up and down like our city, then you got a serious problem, so almost all soul 2015 cars standing for sale have degraded batteries. The good ones are of newer year model.
About my car, he claims that too many cells are degraded, so his only suggestion is to replace my battery. But I don't trust his judgement, maybe he wants just to get more money! Or maybe he wants the good cells out of my battery so he can do business!
He waa trying to scare me and push me to agree with him. He says if you replace few cells then others will degrade within a month. I am doubtful!

JejuSoul
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:54 am

Omar wrote:...Now in the Jordanian market, there are many Souls that have their batteries degraded sharply. I can see that around 2 thirds of the cars offered for sale (around 30 cars usually) actually have degraded batteries.


That sounds possible if most of these cars have been bought over from the US. In 2014 and 2015 most of the Soul EVs in the US were in the warmer states. (California, Georgia, Texas) It is the heat that has caused such rapid degradation. With very high ambient temperatures the battery will degrade fast irrespective of how the car is driven.

Here's a poll from the Kia Soul EV facebook page. A third of the US owners have done or soon expect battery replacement.
The poll will include all the newer 2018 cars that don't have degraded batteries yet.
And all the Soul EVs in the cooler climate of the Pacific North West.

Image

The rest of the world is at about 10% on this poll. I expect this number to increase considerably before warranty expires.
I was told at the Kia service center that many owners here are experiencing sudden deterioration after about 80,000km.

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Omar wrote:...There are around 15 cars with degraded batteries. Their prices start from 11,000 dollars up to 14,500 dollars. Good cars prices are around 17,000 dollars....

If we talk about the price of used 2015 Soul EV's here on Jeju island, It is between 12,000 to 14,000 USD. The state of the battery is irrelevant. What matters is the odometer. My car with a replaced battery will not gain any value at all from the price I bought it for six months ago. This makes sense if you realise that the most important factor is when the warranty expires. I doubt this is the reason for the valuations, but it does make sense.

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Oinq
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:19 am

JejuSoul wrote:If we talk about the price of used 2015 Soul EV's here on Jeju island, It is between 12,000 to 14,000 USD. The state of the battery is irrelevant. What matters is the odometer. My car with a replaced battery will not gain any value at all from the price I bought it for six months ago. This makes sense if you realise that the most important factor is when the warranty expires. I doubt this is the reason for the valuations, but it does make sense.


Because there, all the cars are under warranty, but in the Jordanian they are imports, so, out of warranty.

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Soul EV 2016

Zattaxu
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:26 pm

I had my Kia Soul EV at the dealership for 120 000 km (75 000 miles) service at the beginning of December. The authorized dealer did a reading at 83 % SOH (I read 82.8 % in the Kia Soul EV Lite app at the same time). Just a few weeks earlier the app was showing 76.1 % and now (6 weeks after service) it is showing 72.3 %. Is it common with this much variation between the readings each time the car calibrates/calculates the SOH? Does anything (eg. temperature, recent consumption details, or other factors) affect the input of the calculation?

Edit (update): And later today it now shows 69.3 %

JejuSoul
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:14 pm

Zattaxu wrote:... Is it common with this much variation between the readings each time the car calibrates/calculates the SOH? Does anything (eg. temperature, recent consumption details, or other factors) affect the input of the calculation?...

Yes. The values for deterioration fluctuate a lot. (Maybe +/- 5%, maybe related to temperature, charging, driving speed.)
Normally I prefer to plot the data and use a trend to find the SOH, because that removes some of the randomness.
The only time it is worthwhile to know the exact value the car is reporting is when you have to get the battery changed.
Kia service will use the value on the day it is checked.

I took my car in to get checked the day it hit 40% Maximum deterioration. That triggered the warranty.
3 months later when I took the car in to get the battery replaced the deterioration had gone down, and was below the warranty line.
They did not check a second time.

Here is a chart showing the MIn and Max deterioration counters on my car.

Image

For a good battery I prefer to use an average of the Min and Max to find the SOH. This gives better results when charted.
But as the chart shows, once the battery has gone 'bad' the Min value becomes meaningless.
The SoulEVSpy app always uses the Max value to calculate SOH.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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