nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Cells in HV battery

Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:09 pm

Hello, everyone

What are the dimensions of this cell?

I collect all information that I found about cells from Kia soul HV battery.
Kia battery is made from 192 cells

Cells in modules are E375 and E400
E375 cell is a 37.5Ah cell. This is the cell used in the 27 kWh Kia Soul EV from June 2014 to June 2017. It is NMC622 LMO Free

E400 cell is a 40.0 Ah cell. This is the cell used in the 30 kWh Kia Soul EV from June 2017 to May 2019.
It is also used for battery replacements of the first generation cars.

http://menu-principal-forums-aveq.10973 ... sembly.png
Image

14 cells module size is ~ 27,5cm x 36cm x 17,5cm
10 cells module size is ~ 27,5cm x 36cm x 13cm

One single cell comparing to case/module size should be more less like 35cm x 13,75cm x 1,25cm

What is the real size of single cell ?

IanL
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Jersey, English Channel Islands

Re: Cells in HV battery

Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:16 pm

My understanding is that the 192 cells (96 cell-pairs) relates to the 27 kWh battery, whereas the 30 kWh battery has 200 cells (100 cell-pairs). That suggests that the 30 kWH battery has four 11-cell-pair modules, rather than 10-cell-pair modules.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1652
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:32 am

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There is still so much we don't know about the battery including the size of the pouch cells.
It seems likely that the E375 and the E400 cells are identical in size because my car had a replacement battery where 192 E375 cells were taken out of the pack and 192 E400 cells put in. The position and wiring is identical.
Each E400 cell is probably slightly heavier than the E375 given the relative weights of the two battery packs.

We do not know the total capacity of the 30kWh pack, we just know that degradation is much slower.
I have not seen the layout of the modules for the 30kWh pack.

Does anyone know these details?
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Tcalp
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:03 am

Re: Cells in HV battery

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:06 pm

For those people mentioning whether or not SK is providing 'reused cells'. I don't think this makes any sense, I'm sure then it's a 'remanufactured pack' they are just sending new battery cells to be changed out. It would cost to much to move the old cells around, have them tested for re-charge/life expectancy / etc ...

I'm curious if they are still using 2017 'generational' technology in the E400 cells at this point, as I'm sure they have continued to tweak the formulas over the years to allow for better and better life

JejuSoul
Posts: 1652
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 am

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No. They are not just sending new cells to be replaced out in re manufactured packs.
It's a different part number and a very different price. One comes from the battery manufacturer in South Korea, the other comes from a re-manufacturing plant in Texas.

Looking at the Kia parts website - Kia Soul EV Re-manufactured Battery (37510-E4250R)
This battery costs $1,609.50 and fits all models both 27kWh and 30kWh

Looking at the Kia parts website - Kia Soul EV Replacement Battery (37510-E4250)
This battery costs $12,293.25 and fits all models both 27kWh and 30kWh

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The E400 cell is 2012 technology. That is when they began testing the properties of this cell. The published data in 2014 was after a couple of years testing. Manufacturing began in 2016. The cells first went into a production car in 2017.

I think it is quite likely that the E400 cells produced today are improved from those produced in 2017. For example any single part of the cell that has been improved in the meantime may now be used. For example if the battery separator technology improved, all new cells may use this improvement because there is no longer any supply of the original.
Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1652
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:51 pm

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There's some interesting battery videos from Ukraine.
In the first one we see the swollen battery cell from a failed pack.
They show a video from a car that has an 80km GOM at 100% but turtles at 30km.
This is a very failed battery. Reminds me of my old Hyundai Blueon.

Image

Image

The second video takes apart the battery and shows a failsafe lever that shuts down the battery if such swelling occurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyqJZbWE44g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMGtyIZIw-I

I am amazed that 20,000 people have watched these videos. To be interested in swollen battery cells seems such an obscure topic.
Also amazing to see so many Soul EVs in Ukraine undergoing DIY battery repair.
It makes no sense to import these cars out of the country where the warranty is valid until after that warranty expires.
The cost of repair is just too high.
It is also worrying that after the warranty expires the value of our cars should be close to zero because of these repair costs.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:41 am

always is good to fix something instead scrap it. In previous post you wrote battery costs $12,293.25 but when you add to basket it cost much more ;) :o $36,196.00USD the same with refurbished. That's why a lot of people want fix it then replace it.

IanL
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Jersey, English Channel Islands

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:28 pm

But the remanufactured battery only costs $1,600, so a car out-of-warranty should only be worth $1,600 or so less than it would otherwise be worth.

Or put another way, buying an 8 year old SoulEV for peanuts and spending $1,600 on a replacement battery sounds like a sensible plan.

nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:08 pm

if you add to basket subtotal for refurbished one is $4,109.50 so not so good plan.

IanL
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Jersey, English Channel Islands

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:09 am

nware0 wrote:if you add to basket subtotal for refurbished one is $4,109.50 so not so good plan.


Unless you have cells which swelled up and damaged the basket, why would you need a replacement basket?

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