JejuSoul
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:16 am

nware0 wrote:always is good to fix something instead scrap it. In previous post you wrote battery costs $12,293.25 but when you add to basket it cost much more ;) :o $36,196.00USD the same with refurbished. That's why a lot of people want fix it then replace it.

I totally agree it is better to fix our cars and have them last longer. Problem is exorbitant cost. $36,196.00USD is insane!

But I don't see the same pricing you do. On mine they add a $2,500USD core charge. Total is $14,793.25USD.

Image

This price is before the service and handling cost. I doubt anyone would ever pay this outside of a warranty cover.

There was some previous discussions on these issues here :- Options to deal with degraded batteries other than warranty
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nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:23 am

Sorry there was some error on site, today prices are $4,109.50USD refurbished and $14,793.25 new. So my bad, but anyway this prices are too high xD I bought my kia for 6000usd so don't want to spend more that 4000usd on battery to have at least 200 km range.

My kia 2015 is already out of warranty cover so that's why I looking for more info about battery and cells. For start I need to open modules and check exactly size of single cell inside module. I reviewed all manuals and forums but there are only speculations with no specific data.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:56 pm

IanL wrote:...Unless you have cells which swelled up and damaged the basket, why would you need a replacement basket?

Ian, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you need to think more before posting. Both here and on the SpeakEV site some of your recent comments have
been badly thought out. The basket referred to in this comment is the shopping basket on the website.

Analysis of battery data is hard. It requires lots of data and an open-mind on different possibilities. Jumping to simple conclusions often leads to uncertain claims becoming accepted as fact by many. Examples include the website wikipedia claiming to know the total capacity of a 30kWh Soul EV. Another is that the two values for the SOC displayed by the BMS show the unused buffer. I believe both of these common misconceptions to be false. But I can't prove it.

I began a Battery Ageing Model thread on this site about 6 years ago because I thought we could pin down the causes of battery degradation. I stopped collecting data for that thread about a year ago because I realised the issue is too complex to make any definitive statements.
Last edited by JejuSoul on Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:28 pm

nware0 wrote:...My kia 2015 is already out of warranty cover so that's why I looking for more info about battery and cells. ..


Did you see this. :- Battery Ageing Model
Omar wrote:Car: Kia Soul EV+ 2015, Imported from California USA.

I have mentioned my car battery status a few months ago in this topic. Previously the degradation stopped during winter, the SOH showed even an improvement from 59.9% to 63.4%. But once the summer started, the degradation accelerated. It went down to 59%, then in few weeks to 55%, then to 47.3% in few days. The car dash was showing 58 miles on full charge.

Yesterday, I replaced 4 cells at an electric car repair shop. I am still waiting the BMS to adjust to see the improvement. But this morning was my first long trip after the repair, recently the car consumed 36% of the battery for the trip. This morning it consumed only 22%.

I will post an update once I see that the BMS is adjusting
...

Totally 370 $$

Each cell is sold for 57$, Labor charge is 142$

The cells are used ones, but of excellent SOH, the shop got them from a wrecked Soul EV with less than 15,000 Km ODO meter.

I know a guy who did the same 8 months ago, and his car is still fine, it travels around 175 km's on a full charge.
...

I changed 3 cells. 6 months later, I changed the whole battery. I could drive like 80 Km before I had to replace it.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Cells in HV battery

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:16 pm

JejuSoul wrote:
Did you see this. :- Battery Ageing Model



Yes I saw, but everyone for now just replacing cells with the same used model E375 or in the best case for E400 new cells / or new battery E400. 30kWh so all of them in the same dimension.
I like to complicate my life and looking to mod battery to higher capacity. I was hoping to find the exact dimensions of cell inside module before I drop battery from car, but anyway I will drop it more times because for start I will create one or two new modules not all of them.

Our Original E375 Battery
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IanL
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Jersey, English Channel Islands

Re: Cells in HV battery

Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:41 pm

How come the 14 cell modules and the 10 cell modules are both shown as 75Ah? Isn't 75 Ah the capacity of the whole battery, which would make the modules about 10.9 Ah and 7.6 Ah respectively?

nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Cells in HV battery

Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:11 am

IanL wrote:How come the 14 cell modules and the 10 cell modules are both shown as 75Ah? Isn't 75 Ah the capacity of the whole battery, which would make the modules about 10.9 Ah and 7.6 Ah respectively?


No, single cell had when new 37,5Ah and 3,7V so there are modules 14S2P and 10S2P
So 96 parallel cells 2P
96*3,7=355,2V
355,2V * 75Ah = 26 640 Wh ~~27kWh battery pack

IanL
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Jersey, English Channel Islands

Re: Cells in HV battery

Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:45 am

Ah, thank you.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Cells in HV battery

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:09 am

nware0 wrote:...355,2V * 75Ah = 26 640 Wh ~~27kWh battery pack

nware0. You too have to be more careful when making rushed comments.
The nominal voltage of the 27kWh pack is 360V.
360V * 75Ah = 27kWh

Image
From Kia Canada: Emergency Rescue Guide Manual : Soul EV

Ian's comment deserves a much simpler answer. With two identical battery cells in parallel you multiply the capacity. 37.5Ah * 2 = 75Ah.
Stringing these cell pairs together in series does not alter the capacity at all. It alters the voltage.

There is often confusion about the word capacity.
Charge Capacity in Ah - is the unit that measures the amount of charge that can be available in a fully charged battery.
Energy Capacity in kWh - is the unit that measures the energy stored in a battery.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

nware0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Cells in HV battery

Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:28 am

JejuSoul. I fully agree with you, just for calculation I took 3.7V cell. Yes In ours kia soul HV battery pack rated voltage is 360V but good to mention here that operation voltages are :

Cell Voltage : 2.5 ~ 4.3 V
Pack Voltage: 240 ~ 413 V

So normal Lithium-ion Polymer battery cells with normal voltages are fully charged at 4.2V while lithium high-voltage cells are allow the battery charge to higher cut-off charging voltage at 4.30V. The nominal voltage of normal-voltage cells is at 3.6-3.7V while the nominal voltage of high-voltage cells is at 3.8V. But it is just small detail among all other things.

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