notfred
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

It's not the range but the State Of Health of the battery that determines whether it gets replaced. You can use Soul EV Spy on an Android phone with a bluetooth OBDII dongle to read it.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:20 am

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Just looked at the charging profile of my replacement battery for the first time.
I don't charge to 100% very often and hadn't plotted this data before.
(Edit - I do have a similar plot from March 9th 2020. That one doesn't have this oddity.)

This is a 28.8A charge from 40% SOC to 100% SOC.

Image

The battery is fully charged at 96.5% SOC. The last 3.5% of displayed SOC didn't add anything into the battery.
The BMS for a 27kWh car is built for the old battery cells, clearly it doesn't work correctly with the newer higher capacity cells.
They told me the BMS had been upgraded to cope, but is not working in this real example.

Note the energy added is equivalent to a battery capacity of 30.4kWh. It was fully charged. I haven't 'lost' anything.
The final resting voltage at 100% SOC is 397.1V
My other car a 27kWh with SOH = 96% has a final resting voltage at 100% SOC of 398.0V

The voltages are the same, the difference is that the old cells are 37.5Ah, the new cells are 40.0Ah.
(Parallel cell pairs will have 75.0Ah, and 80.0Ah.)

Also of note - a MY2018 30kWh Soul EV has a final resting voltage at 100% SOC of 410.0V
This has 100 cells, each charged to 4.10V
My car has 96 cells, each charged to 4.14V

I assume this means there is a much larger buffer on the MY2018 30kWh Soul EV than a MY2015 replacement battery 30kWh Soul EV.

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Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

RaleighRon
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:29 am

Thanks for the info. I bought a "KONNWEI KW902 Mini BT Wireless OBD-II" - surprisingly inexpensive - the red one was less than $6 on Amazon, and then purchased Soul EV Spy app (Android only, as you said), and it worked great!

It told me I have 63% SOH (State of Health) - below the 70% warranty level. So, I have opened a ticket at Kia Customer Support website for battery replacement. At least, it's the start of probably a long process, as I'm in NC and nearest "qualified EV" Kia dealer is hundreds of miles away.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:56 am

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My replacement battery has now done 10,000km in ten months.
It is doing very well. It has lost 0.1% of capacity.

Image

This is better than any other car we have data for.
Previous record holders were Elmil in Sweden, and SoulEV2016 in France. They both charged at 10A (~2kWh).
I always charge at 32A (~6kWh).

My assumption now is that the newer E400 cell not only has higher capacity but also degrades slower than the original E375.
This fits with the lack of data we have have from any 30kWh Soul EVs with degradation.
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Here is a list of the various ROM-IDs for each of the BMS Firmware updates on the original Soul EV.

Image

This is badly translated from the Korean as is so often the case with Hyundai / Kia.
E4050 - 'Elevated Temp' actually means with Battery Heater.
E4000 - 'Non-Heating' means without Battery Heater.

My replacement battery is an E4200 - It has the new cells and no Battery Heater. I must have version 5702 BMS firmware.
MY17 in the lower section should be MY18 to match the actual pack I got.

Image

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:49 pm

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After 1 year and 12,500km the replacement battery is still doing really well.
Still 0.1% deterioration loss.

Here's the winter range at 7C. 197km is also the winter range as measured last March when the battery was new.

Image

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The only issue with the car this year was yesterday. I left the car idle for 5 days during the Winter Holidays and the 12V battery died.
I am not the first to have this happen.

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:59 am

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After 1 year 4 months and 17,250km the replacement battery is still doing really well.
Still 0.1% deterioration loss. (Is this possible? Have they changed the way the BMS works?)

Here are the results of my latest range test and calibration.
I charged up to 100%, drove down to 7% and then charged back up to 100% SOC.
I stopped driving at 7% when the display changed to '---' for the remaining distance.
Just before this happened the display was showing 14km left.
The odometer shows I had driven 226km, Hence I will estimate that I could have driven 240km until the car turtled at 0%
The simple method for calculating the usable capacity is to divide the range by the the consumption.
In this case the numbers are easy. 240 km / 8.0 km/kWh = 30 kWh
I used Torque to gain more accurate data from the battery system itself and will post this next.

Image

Image

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:35 am

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Here is a 28.8A charge from 7% SOC to 100% SOC.
(The input to the OBC averaged 28.7A, 216.4V over 5 hours. Both stay fairly constant throughout.)
(The output from the OBC varies as the battery voltage increases. Voltage goes up, current goes down.)
(The ratio of input power / output power = efficiency was about 89%)

The initial voltage at 7% SOC is 327.4V
The final resting voltage at 100% SOC is 397.8V (each cell at 4.14V)
Cell voltage deviation was zero at all times except for the very lowest SOC when it reached 0.04V

Image

Looking at the values for Cumulative Energy Charged (CEC) - 27.6kWh were added to the battery.
This gives 27.6/0.93 = 29.7kWh usable capacity.

Looking at the values for Cumulative Current Charged (CCC) - 76.4Ah were added to the battery.
This gives 76.4/0.93 = 82.15Ah. (does this represent the usable capacity?)
This is slightly higher than the nominal capacity of 80Ah

---------------------------------------------------------

Looking at the laboratory analysis of a 2015 Soul EV battery pack, I have a couple of doubts about my analysis above.
See AVT: Battery Pack Laboratory Testing Results


1/ Once the battery gets below about 320V the drop in voltage is no longer linear.
I am assuming above that the lowest 7% of the battery will continue to drain linearly as before. It seems the BMS assumes this too. It may not be true. Perhaps a battery calibration should be done first before a range test.

2/ The measured capacity depends on the C rate. In this graph it is C/3. It may not be the same under other conditions.
In my test charging to 93% SOC took 5 hours, so the C rate is between C/5 and C/6.

3/ The measured capacity depends on the temperature rate. For lab testing it is 23C +/- 2C. It may not be the same under other temperatures.
In my recent test the battery temperature ranged about 18C +/- 2C. I think I would get a higher capacity with hotter ambient temperatures.

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

ksoul2084
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon May 10, 2021 3:32 pm

Those are some truly impressive numbers. :)

FYI. My battery was replaced (well, the cell packs were swapped out) last August. Since then I've only put on approx. 6,000km of mileage, usually charging using Type 1 to 80% max.

Last night I did an uninterrupted charge from 7% to 100% to reset the SOH, and let the car balance the cells, etc.

Once completed the car reported all cells at 41.6v, outside temperature was about 11c. Battery SOH is 99.7%, though estimate range was only 120km (lower efficiency with cooler temps and heaters running, etc. I guess).

YpinEV
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:44 pm
Location: St-Jean, Quebec

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Fri May 21, 2021 4:15 am

Got new battery this week (37510-E4250R) on my 2016. So far all is perfectly fine and it seems to show larger autonomy than original 27kWh. After "Googling" part number, i noticed remanufacture battery packs are now offered from KIA at $1600 usd.
https://www.kia.parts/oem-parts/kia-rem ... 7510e4250r

Since battery size is larger and price is reasonable compare to new one (around 12k$), I just woundering what was changed when remanufactured. Replaced some of 8 cell blocks with new ones since overall battery capacity increased?

If new battery last at least another 5 years, I would surely consider get another one then, considering it cost me almost nothing for maintenance and so little for "fuel".

JejuSoul
Posts: 1633
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Sat May 22, 2021 8:52 pm

YpinEV wrote:Got new battery this week (37510-E4250R) on my 2016...

Great. Glad you got a new battery.
Edit - Corrected my mistake - E4250R is 96 cells not 100.
If your car is a 2016 originally sold in Canada then your previous pack was a 27kWh 96 cell pack with battery heater. (37510-E4050)
Your recently installed pack is a 96 cell pack with battery heater which has the newer battery cell chemistry. (37510-E4250R)

But the R code at the end of the serial number suggests that this is not a brand new pack.
The price of the pack you link to is much cheaper than for a new pack.
It is a re-manufactured pack. They may have taken cells from an old pack from a crashed or failed MY2018 30kWh Soul EV and refurbished it.
The cells in this pack are probably 2 or 3 years old already.
This is probably okay because all the data we have so far is that these packs are holding up really well.
Will be interesting to hear again how your pack is doing in 3 or 4 years time.
Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue May 25, 2021 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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