JejuSoul
Posts: 1629
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:48 pm

ZuinigeRijder wrote:...I live in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

The problem with the heat pump has now been reported multiple times from both Canada and Norway. But not elsewhere.
We now have very good evidence that it was caused by a software update.
Maybe. The software was written and tested on a car without a battery heater. All the cars in Korea have a heat pump but no heater.
Maybe. The software actually works on these cars.
Maybe. Kia never tested the software on cars with a battery heater.
ZuinigeRijder - can you tell us if you have a battery heater.

Can't prove anything of course. But this kind of buggy software and poor testing of updates does have a history.

2016Electric - Could you go back to the original post in this thread and update the title to be "Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427"
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

2016Electric
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:31 pm

JejuSoul wrote:
ZuinigeRijder wrote:...I live in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

The problem with the heat pump has now been reported multiple times from both Canada and Norway. But not elsewhere.
We now have very good evidence that it was caused by a software update.
Maybe. The software was written and tested on a car without a battery heater. All the cars in Korea have a heat pump but no heater.
Maybe. The software actually works on these cars.
Maybe. Kia never tested the software on cars with a battery heater.
ZuinigeRijder - can you tell us if you have a battery heater.

Can't prove anything of course. But this kind of buggy software and poor testing of updates does have a history.

2016Electric - Could you go back to the original post in this thread and update the title to be "Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427"


Sure, I will update the title to read "Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427".

Interesting re the comment earlier on a 2014 model not affected by this issue - the SA427 FATC update only appears to cover model years 2016 and 2017. Have a look at the TSB here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 8-0001.pdf

Per the TSB, "This bulletin provides the procedure to upgrade the Battery Management System (BMS) and Full Auto Temperature Control (FATC) software on some 2016-2017MY Soul (PS EV) vehicles, produced from May 21, 2015 through August 29, 2017, in order to improve air conditioning operation while the battery is charging. "

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:37 am

JejuSoul wrote:
ZuinigeRijder wrote:...I live in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.


ZuinigeRijder - can you tell us if you have a battery heater.



How can I check I have a battery heater?

I have a heat pump. Here is a picture I took today:

Image

If I compare this with the picture of this post it looks the same as if one which also has a heat pump.

Image

But I could not find how to check I have a battery heater, yes or no. I found this information, but I do not want to disassemble my battery pack :lol:

Image

JejuSoul
Posts: 1629
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:11 am

ZuinigeRijder wrote:How can I check I have a battery heater?

If you look at torque there are two values for the temperature of the battery heater.
Without a heater those 2 values are always zero because the necessary sensors do not exist.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:06 am

JejuSoul wrote:
ZuinigeRijder wrote:How can I check I have a battery heater?

If you look at torque there are two values for the temperature of the battery heater.
Without a heater those 2 values are always zero because the necessary sensors do not exist.


Hmm, Torque gave me -50.0 C as answer for both.

This is what I have in the .csv:

000_Battery Heater 1 Temperature,Heater Temp1,2105,Signed(X),-40,120,C,7E4
000_Battery Heater 2 Temperature,Heater Temp2,2105,Signed(Y),-40,120,C,7E4

So I would have expected -40.0 C or 0.0 C when the sensors do not exist, but I got -50.0 C.

2016Electric
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:57 am

ZuinigeRijder wrote:
YpinEV wrote:My dealer did some test on my car Today and confirm heatpump does work but only over 15 degC. No big surprise since I did the same in my garage few weeks ago, after reading this thread. They have collected data for further analysis by KIa .


I life in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

So it looks like there is something different with the software update in Canada.

What I noticed is that after fast charging, sometimes the Airco and Heat led are automatically activated at the same time for a short period of time just after driving away, although it was very cold outside. The temperatures of the batteries are however more than 40 degrees Celcius at the end after 3 short fast charging sessions within 2 hours (30% till 80%) and also the fan in de trunk is activated and gets more and more rpm.


Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 8-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.

NorSoul
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:42 am

2016Electric wrote:
ZuinigeRijder wrote:
YpinEV wrote:My dealer did some test on my car Today and confirm heatpump does work but only over 15 degC. No big surprise since I did the same in my garage few weeks ago, after reading this thread. They have collected data for further analysis by KIa .


I life in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

So it looks like there is something different with the software update in Canada.

What I noticed is that after fast charging, sometimes the Airco and Heat led are automatically activated at the same time for a short period of time just after driving away, although it was very cold outside. The temperatures of the batteries are however more than 40 degrees Celcius at the end after 3 short fast charging sessions within 2 hours (30% till 80%) and also the fan in de trunk is activated and gets more and more rpm.


Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 8-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.


I don’t think that update is the only root to the problem, as mine is first registered in January 2015. Most if not all people in Norway got that issue after a recall for the e-brake where they also updated the BMS.

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Heat pump stopped working, no apparent cause

Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:51 am

2016Electric wrote:
ZuinigeRijder wrote:Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.


I do indeed not know 100% sure if this was this update. But they talked about some changes to the software related to the airco while charging. See this post. Unfortunately I do not have a printout of the software updates performed.

2016Electric
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:57 am

NorSoul wrote:
2016Electric wrote:
ZuinigeRijder wrote:
I life in the Netherlands and with the temperatures around 0 degrees Celcius, my heatpump is just working as expected, although I had the software update on my Kia Soul EV of 2014: BMS software update.

So it looks like there is something different with the software update in Canada.

What I noticed is that after fast charging, sometimes the Airco and Heat led are automatically activated at the same time for a short period of time just after driving away, although it was very cold outside. The temperatures of the batteries are however more than 40 degrees Celcius at the end after 3 short fast charging sessions within 2 hours (30% till 80%) and also the fan in de trunk is activated and gets more and more rpm.


Hi ZuinigeRijder,

You indicated that your Soul is a 2014 model. Yes, it has a heat pump - all of the EV Souls sold since 2014 have had that option; however, the portion of SA427 that applies to the FATC (the portion that affects the climate control and heat pump system) appears to apply only to certain 2016 and 2017 model year vehicles. This is indicated the in ROM ID table under "event 502" in the TSB (at the link I posted):

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 8-0001.pdf

Thus, I doubt your vehicle would have had the same FATC update that was done on mine and some others (2016-2017 model years). I point this out only because I do not want to confuse the issue, and it would seem that we are finally starting to narrow down the cause of this problem.


I don’t think that update is the only root to the problem, as mine is first registered in January 2015. Most if not all people in Norway got that issue after a recall for the e-brake where they also updated the BMS.


Interesting - your's is a 2015 with a battery heater? If so, perhaps the points JejuSoul raised about the interaction with the battery heater option have something to do with it.
Was that update - the one you had applied - also part of the TSB for SA427?
If I recall, you (or someone) mentioned posts in a FaceBook group for Norway Soul EV owners having a problem with the heat pump after this update. Do you have a link for that FaceBook group?

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Heat pump stopped working after climate software update SA427

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:15 am

For me the reason to have an software update was this recall for the EPB: ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKE (EPB) LOGIC IMPROVEMENT(SC191). And while applying it, they found also another software update, which they told me was related to airco and charging. Which one, I do not know, but suspected SA427.

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