YpinEV
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:44 pm
Location: St-Jean, Quebec

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon May 24, 2021 4:34 am

From reading with Torque and Soul EV Spy, it shows 96*2 cells managed by BMS. Total voltage also indicate total of 96 groupss. My guess is my car will only use 96 out of available 100, with likely intermediate pack connection (4 not used at all). It would do the math since dealer service department confirm it was mention 28,8kWh on crate (30kWh*96/100). It would also make sense for KIA to have one spare part to fit 2015 to 2019 models.

I will track battery degradation over next months/years and share results. I like the car and i think it will
make very good second car for next 10 years. Time will tell.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Tue May 25, 2021 3:38 am

YpinEV wrote:From reading with Torque and Soul EV Spy, it shows 96*2 cells managed by BMS. Total voltage also indicate total of 96 groupss. My guess is my car will only use 96 out of available 100, with likely intermediate pack connection (4 not used at all). It would do the math since dealer service department confirm it was mention 28,8kWh on crate (30kWh*96/100). It would also make sense for KIA to have one spare part to fit 2015 to 2019 models.
I will track battery degradation over next months/years and share results. I like the car and i think it will
make very good second car for next 10 years. Time will tell.


I know that our cars have 96 cell pairs in series. You are correct to talk of 96 groups. But I prefer to simplify to 96 cells because that is the terminology that is used by Kia to talk about cell voltages and cell deterioration.

I was wrong to state that they had given you a 30kWh battery with 100 cells. I have edited my previous post.
Your recently installed pack is a 96 cell pack with battery heater which has the newer battery cell chemistry. (37510-E4250R)
Although when looking at the Kia parts website - Kia Soul EV Battery (37510-E4250)
This battery costs $12,293.25 and fits all models both 27kWh and 30kWh

I am sceptical about the accuracy of the capacity written on your pack 28.8kWh. (It is unlikely that a refurbished pack would have a mathematically exact number, and that every one of these packs would be the same). I was also sceptical when my service tech told me that my new battery was 30kWh. The whole point of this thread is my attempts to work out what the actual capacity is.

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Do you know if they put the new cells into your original case.
You can see the sticker by looking under the back of the car.

Image

What is your range? How does this compare to when the car was brand new?
Here's my latest GOM range. The best so far after 18 months with the new battery.

Image

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The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

YpinEV
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:44 pm
Location: St-Jean, Quebec

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Sun May 30, 2021 1:43 pm

Do you know if they put the new cells into your original case.
You can see the sticker by looking under the back of the car.

Sticker on my pack indicate P/N 37501-4050. With dirt on it, it was original one (from 2016).
Actually in Canada/Quebec, they reuse case and exchange 8 battery blocks and change bolts and cover gasket. It takes about 4 hours for service. Big question is what cells areinstalled. From several technical sources it is nominal 28,8 kWh. I agree with you that used cells would show less capacity with aging and remanufactured set would be less than that.

What is your range? How does this compare to when the car was brand new?
Here's my latest GOM range. The best so far after 18 months with the new battery
.

Wow, 216 km on GOM is impressive. Only few charging cycles on mine and it is already better than on original one. I now have 185km and i believe best i got then was around 175km. I wait for few charges for BMS to reset and get degradation values to tell me more about batterry pack condition.

notfred
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Sun May 30, 2021 5:46 pm

I had mine in to the dealer recently for some other work. I'm still on the original battery but part of the work included a BMS update. I just got it to recharge and recalibrate today the updates and I'm seeing a similar range improvement.
After the recalibration it showed max deterioration of 17% for 93% SoH (at 72,000km), and a range of 178km. I've never seen a range like that before, max used to be 150km before it learnt the battery and once it learnt it then less.
I did notice that it was reporting actual charge level of 95% when fully charged, I wonder if the latest BMS versions allow it to use more of the actual total battery capacity?

IanL
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Location: Jersey, English Channel Islands

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Sun May 30, 2021 11:44 pm

notfred wrote:...
I did notice that it was reporting actual charge level of 95% when fully charged, I wonder if the latest BMS versions allow it to use more of the actual total battery capacity?


Is that charge level the SOC on the dashboard, or a value from SoulEV Spy?

notfred
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon May 31, 2021 3:26 am

Dashboard shows 100%, Soul EV Spy shows 2 values, the 100% on the dash and the actual charge level of 95%.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon May 31, 2021 3:38 am

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The BMS in cars with replacement batteries that have the updated cells is significantly altered.
AFAIK the recent BMS update to cars with the original battery is not.
(And yes I know I they messed up the heat pump with a badly written update.)

Can you all check the value shown in Torque for the battery heater. Given you all have a battery heater this should be showing ambient temp.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

YpinEV
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:44 pm
Location: St-Jean, Quebec

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon May 31, 2021 5:49 am

notfred wrote:I had mine in to the dealer recently for some other work. ...


Following BMS undate on my 2016, (before battery replacement) few charging cycles were required for GOM to show real life.
Do you see increase in range? (driven not on GOM) with new BMS.

I noticed slower charging current on level 2 (over 90%). That was preventing overvoltage condition on weeker cells and extend charging on other cells. I believe it was adding few extra km but nothing very significant.

notfred
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Mon May 31, 2021 6:37 am

With COVID I'm barely driving it, will be a while before I sort out whether the GOM range is anything like the real range.

shumanchu
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:56 pm

Re: Analysis of a replacement battery.

Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:06 pm

Hello, this seems like the best thread to ask this question:

Is the BMS firmware different for the different battery chemistries? My '16 Kia Soul EV recently got a 37510-E4200R battery replacement. I noticed that the SOH still reads 68.4%, same as when I brought it in. I assumed that they would need to update the BMS firmware to handle the new chemistry, and that doing so would reset the SOH back to 100 (or 110?) percent.

With the new battery, the GOM displays 77 miles on full charge, whereas it was displaying 56 miles on full charge when I brought it in.

EDIT: forgot to mention that I have not been able to do a full charge cycle on it yet (down below 10% and back up to 100% charge).

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