langemand
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:06 pm
Location: Greater Copenhagen Area, Denmark, Europe
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:27 am

JeroenE wrote:That does not make you less a stranger :roll:

And yet you decided to install an app released by this stranger, an app which has unlimited access to send any information it collects, to anywhere on the internet :D

I am unable to help resolve the issues you experience, without access to the log-information from the Soul EV Spy app.

The log files does contain all data seen in the csv-file (except for GPS and DC-charger information). So this includes your car VIN (you know, the identifier clearly visible from outside in the front window by strangers passing by), and your car ODO, DTC-codes, ECU-names and technical stuff. And more, data values which I don't know what is. I do not know what you consider sensitive information. It's is your choice whether to share your data or not, and with whom. It is your decision because I have chosen not to make the app upload the data. That is not the common choice in apps, by the way.

Feel free to drop by for a cup of coffee, so I stop being a stranger to you, and you will trust me enough to let me try to help you.

Alternatively, get help to solve your issues from someone less strange than me. Or better yet, fix the app yourself, the code is here: https://github.com/langemand/SoulEVSpy

Perhaps another internet stranger who has a functioning KW902 and an old Soul will let us know if the issues you experiences are general, and maybe even dares to email me the soulspy.log files, so I have a chance of analyzing and correcting the issues you are experiencing.

Question: Do you turn the car completely on (hold brake pedal, then press the car on button), before connecting the app to the dongle? The internal systems in the car are unable to communicate with the dongle, when off. There is always power for the dongle, so dongle LEDs lighting up is not an indication of the car being on.
Last edited by langemand on Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Improving Soul EV Spy app. Errors: Send me the soulspy.log*.txt-files
Kia e-Soul 2019-now
History:
Kia Soul EV 2015-19: http://soul.spjeldager.dk/
Nissan Evalia 2015: http://evalia.spjeldager.dk/
Peugeot 106 EV 2010-15: http://elbil.spjeldager.dk/

ksoul2084
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

Re: Soul Spy?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:30 am

Hi, I finally got a chance to install the new app off the Play Store (v0.1.1-4522) and have the following readings:

Max cell det pct: 38.8
Min cell det pct: 0.1

SOH %: 69.1

Is this the expected/correct value?

Thx.

Elmil
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:46 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:11 am

langemand wrote:
In Soul EV Spy app it is now calculated as min(100.0, (totcap * (1-maxdet/100.0) / nomcap * 100.0)), where totcap = 30.5 kWh, and nomcap = 27 kWh.


It has a long time bothered me that we never could catch the algorithm used in the workshop instrument. I have been playing around with my logged data and the actual readings from my service visits for the old 2015 Soul EV. I have a suggestion for an improvement of this algorithm.

Code: Select all

SOH = 100 * ( K1 * (K2 - MaxDet/100) )

  where:
K1 = P1 / P2    // totcap,  nomcap in Ah
K2 = P3 * P4 / 10000

P1 = 80   // Max capacity (Ah)
P2 = 75   // Nominal capacity (Ah)
P3 = 110  // Max SOH units when new
P4 = 95   // Battery SOC at max useable (100% displayed)

This algorithm is totally designed, based on the correlation between workshop printouts of SOH and my logged deterioration values from the same occations. The P3 and P4 constants may be a bit artificial, but there is a perfect match for all workshop printouts. :D

Below table shows the data. SOH(kWh) is output from current algo, SOH(Ah) is from my proposed algo and SOH(KDS) is the truth.

Code: Select all

Max Det% SOH(kWh)   SOH(Ah)   SOH(KDS)
9,3      100,00     100,00     100
11,5     99,97      99,20      99,2
11,2     100,00     99,52      99,5
9,5      100,00     100,00     100
11,0     100,00     99,73      99,7
12,6     98,73      98,03      98,0
13,1     98,16      97,49      97,5
Kia Soul EV 2015 / 115,543 km Sold
Kia Soul EV 2019

langemand
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:06 pm
Location: Greater Copenhagen Area, Denmark, Europe
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:55 pm

JeroenE wrote:Unfortunately Soul Spy stops working sometimes. It is not responsive and I need to force quit the app and restart.


I experienced this myself today! Took the car for a 400 km drive, and when I stopped, the app was completely unresponsive. Neither the soulspy.log file or the SoulData file had been updated for 80 minutes.

I attached the debugger to the phone and found a deadlock error in the lock-handling. I have made a new release with a fix for that, which should be available on google play store within some hours.
Improving Soul EV Spy app. Errors: Send me the soulspy.log*.txt-files
Kia e-Soul 2019-now
History:
Kia Soul EV 2015-19: http://soul.spjeldager.dk/
Nissan Evalia 2015: http://evalia.spjeldager.dk/
Peugeot 106 EV 2010-15: http://elbil.spjeldager.dk/

langemand
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:06 pm
Location: Greater Copenhagen Area, Denmark, Europe
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:14 pm

Elmil wrote:

Code: Select all

SOH = 100 * ( K1 * (K2 - MaxDet/100) )

I have been thinking along the same lines. Your formula is the best correlation I have seen yet, with the limited dataset I have: It gets very close to the value found for a car with very high max deterioration reported, where we have the same max det documented before and after the Kia test:

Code: Select all

max det %   Official Kia SOH %   Your formula
64,7   42,7   42,45


Maybe Jejusoul has an opinion?

PS: Out of curiosity: How come you have so many SOH readouts for your car? I never had one for the +3 years / 65000 kms I owned my Soul EV 2015.
Improving Soul EV Spy app. Errors: Send me the soulspy.log*.txt-files
Kia e-Soul 2019-now
History:
Kia Soul EV 2015-19: http://soul.spjeldager.dk/
Nissan Evalia 2015: http://evalia.spjeldager.dk/
Peugeot 106 EV 2010-15: http://elbil.spjeldager.dk/

langemand
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:06 pm
Location: Greater Copenhagen Area, Denmark, Europe
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:34 pm

langemand wrote:
JeroenE wrote:Some values are weird or wrong. For example battery.heat1_temperature will show "206 C". I'm pretty sure my battery is not 206 degrees Celsius. Even if 206 would be Fahrenheit this would be far to high. I don't think I have this value in Torque. At least not in the dashes I found on this forum years ago (and which I never changed).


Erroneous values is a likely result of the communication problems (others have reported weird DTC codes, which turned out to be caused by the communication issues). When there are communication issues, data values from the car are garbled, and values are calculated based on misplaced data from the car. If this (or similar weird data) are still displayed by the latest version, email me the soulspy.log file and mention which values you see being weird.

I was assuming that the latest release (BETA 0.1.1-4479) was working perfectly on Kia Soul EV 2014-2019 using KW902. If it doesn't, I will fix it (assuming it is not caused by a problem with your OBD-dongle).


I have received files from another beta-tester having a Soul EV 2016, and sure enough, his car is also returning 206 for battery heater 1 and 2, so those values are not due to garbled communication, at least not in his car (he emailed me the log files, so I can see there are no communication glitches). Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted.

Can you confirm that your car does not have battery heaters?

In my Soul EV 2015, the values correlated well with ambient temperature (I never checked if they became higher during charging in winter temperatures).
Improving Soul EV Spy app. Errors: Send me the soulspy.log*.txt-files
Kia e-Soul 2019-now
History:
Kia Soul EV 2015-19: http://soul.spjeldager.dk/
Nissan Evalia 2015: http://evalia.spjeldager.dk/
Peugeot 106 EV 2010-15: http://elbil.spjeldager.dk/

JejuSoul
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:00 pm

langemand wrote: Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted. .
No.
I have no battery heater. The value returned is zero.
Actually I assume there is no sensor, so nothing at all is returned, but Torque has always shown zero.
I will go look what SoulSpy is showing. Yes. Soulspy shows 0C as expected.

----------------------------------------------

I will also go find my data for the official Kia SOH and check to see if Elmil's new formula is more accurate.
His car always had the most data available for this, because for many years mine always showed 100%.

A data point from my car gives the same 99.2% SOH for the new algorithm by Elmil, and for the Torque algorithm, and the official KIA reading.

A data point from ZuinigeRijder where neither the new algorithm by Elmil, or the Torque algorithm, match the official KIA reading.

-
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

langemand
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:06 pm
Location: Greater Copenhagen Area, Denmark, Europe
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:56 pm

JejuSoul wrote:
langemand wrote: Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted. .
No.
I have no battery heater. The value returned is zero.
Actually I assume there is no sensor, so nothing at all is returned, but Torque has always shown zero.
I will go look what SoulSpy is showing. Yes. Soulspy shows 0C as expected.
-


I suppose there is a difference between BMS version in different model years then. The car I received log-files for is a 2016 model, according to it's VIN. I don't know what model year JeroenE's car is.
Improving Soul EV Spy app. Errors: Send me the soulspy.log*.txt-files
Kia e-Soul 2019-now
History:
Kia Soul EV 2015-19: http://soul.spjeldager.dk/
Nissan Evalia 2015: http://evalia.spjeldager.dk/
Peugeot 106 EV 2010-15: http://elbil.spjeldager.dk/

Oinq
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:34 am
Contact: Website

Re: Soul Spy?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:42 pm

How can I know if I have battery heaters? I always assumed I do, but now, I'm not sure anymore.

Code: Select all

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GHPRH6iS98wNhViDA


Soul EV 2016

JeroenE
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Soul Spy?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:07 am

langemand wrote:And yet you decided to install an app released by this stranger, an app which has unlimited access to send any information it collects, to anywhere on the internet :D
Sure, I love living on the edge ;) I do get your point, but my point is that I don't like to share some private information willingly. I know there are apps that will steal them (I don't think you do) but that is different than handing it over without questions.

So this includes your car VIN (you know, the identifier clearly visible from outside in the front window by strangers passing by)
I know, but my address is also posted on my house. That does not mean I intend to share it with everybody on the internet. There are even people who don't want to share their face on the internet even though that is (usually) visible in public as well.

Question: Do you turn the car completely on (hold brake pedal, then press the car on button), before connecting the app to the dongle? The internal systems in the car are unable to communicate with the dongle, when off. There is always power for the dongle, so dongle LEDs lighting up is not an indication of the car being on.
Usually I do it like this: get in, start the car, put on my seat-belt, insert the dongle in the OBD-connector, start Soul Spy. This is the order I did things this morning. Of course, when I get out to quick charge I don't remove the dongle. i have to power cycle the car though. First power off to open the loading bay, then start to use the radio, and a second power cycle to get the car in driving mode again after the quick charge is stopped.


Elmil wrote:This algorithm is totally designed, based on the correlation between workshop printouts of SOH and my logged deterioration values from the same occations. The P3 and P4 constants may be a bit artificial, but there is a perfect match for all workshop printouts. :D
Right, this calculation gives me a bit more SOH. Then it would be about 49% instead of 46% which Soul Spy says. I think it's still way better than the 83% from the "old" calculations.

langemand wrote:I experienced this myself today! Took the car for a 400 km drive, and when I stopped, the app was completely unresponsive. Neither the soulspy.log file or the SoulData file had been updated for 80 minutes.

I attached the debugger to the phone and found a deadlock error in the lock-handling. I have made a new release with a fix for that, which should be available on google play store within some hours.
Thanks, I got it on sunday afternoon. Unfortunately in my case it hasn't helped. It still crashed 2 times. Fortunately I now know that there's an easy way to see this without taking quick notes while driving. In the event that Soul Spy is restarted I get a new .csv file. The same seems to go for the BT connection. When that fails (and is restarted) a new logfile is created.

langemand wrote:I have received files from another beta-tester having a Soul EV 2016, and sure enough, his car is also returning 206 for battery heater 1 and 2, so those values are not due to garbled communication, at least not in his car (he emailed me the log files, so I can see there are no communication glitches). Perhaps 206 is the value returned, when the car has no battery heaters fitted.

Can you confirm that your car does not have battery heaters?
This begs the question how I can tell I have those or not? Being situated in The Netherlands with an almost identical climate of Denmark I would expect to have the same setup as you do.

I found the readout in Torque. There it's called "000_Battery Heater 1 Temperature" (and 2) . It's just not on my dashboards. Also the value is shown as -50C in Torque. If I'm not mistaken that's because Torque sees it as a signed integer and Soul Spy as unsigned integer.


I've sent you an email with edited logfiles. I hope you can still use them.

Edit: my Soul is from August 2014 (when it arrived in The Netherlands), I think that's model year 2015.

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