GizmoEV
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Kelso, WA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:26 pm

After about 30 miles of driving and a full charge this morning there has been a slight change.

Minimum Deterioration = 7.5% (cell #37)
Maximum Deterioration = 10.1% (cell #12)

I'm charging another full charge but set my 240VAC EVSE to 7A and the charger is charging at about 6A which is very close to the power it would do on 120VAC with the included EVSE. We'll see if a very slow charge balances things out a little as far as deterioration is concerned.
David D. Nelson

Blue 2016 Soul EV+ & Cloud 2018 Soul EV+ :D :o

JejuSoul
Posts: 1379
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:08 am

GizmoEV - great that you have got the codes to work on a Windows 10 phone. Looking forward to your post on how to do this.

Not that much should be inferred from a single reading, but if we did then I would say your car is completely average.
Measured against distance your rate of deterioration is exactly on the trend line.
You drive more than average each month, hence measured against time your rate of deterioration is slightly below the trend line.

To get a better comparison with other users could you provide a bit more data..
How fast do you drive, how hard do you brake?
Could you share the Cumulative Energy counters.
How hot does your area get in summer? How often do you use the AC.?
How cold does your area get in winter? How often did you use the heater?

Also do you notice any loss in actual range yet?
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

GizmoEV
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Kelso, WA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:55 pm

JejuSoul wrote:To get a better comparison with other users could you provide a bit more data..
How fast do you drive, how hard do you brake?

For my longer drives I typically drive 60-63mph (~100kph). When I brake I usually let regen do as much of the deceleration as possible down to around 10mph or so. Basically I slow down more gently than I would in an equivalent ICE but not so much so that it takes me for ever to get to a stop. I am almost always driving in B mode with Eco mode off as I haven't seen any range benefit for me and my driving style.

Could you share the Cumulative Energy counters.

The numbers I'm getting with this beta version of Car Scanner Pro don't make sense to me so I don't think they are any where near accurate.

Cumulative Energy Charged = 4.4
Cumulative Energy Discharged = 5.9

I'm going to see if I can get a hold of an Android tablet to see if it is a software issue or otherwise. Other data doesn't seem to make sense either like Min and Max temp are backwards, the PRNDB values are all one ahead of the actual selector position, and a few other items don't display. Other data like the deterioration data, OBC charging current and voltage, SOC, Battery temps, some of the VMCU items, and the TPMS data are fine.

How hot does your area get in summer? How often do you use the AC.?
How cold does your area get in winter? How often did you use the heater?


We have relatively mild climate here. The hottest we typically get in the summer is in the 80-100°F (26-37°C) range. The hottest times usually last 2-3 weeks total out of the summer. The prevailing wind here is directly in from the coast and up the Columbia River. The winter is typically above freezing most days and might freeze at night. The coldest I remember seeing the car report was ~29°F (-2°C) at the end of November 2015. The predicted range on the GOM was 69miles. That is the lowest I have ever seen it. I typically keep the climate control on auto. When I'm driving it is usually set at 72-75°F (22-24°C). It is rare that I don't have more range remaining than predicted at the start of a trip. The only times I have had less range remaining is when I have a headwind or I drive 70-75mph. IIRC, my winter monthly efficiency is around 3.3mi/kWh and summer has been hitting 3.9-4.0mi/kWh. Most of my driving is between Portland, OR and Seattle, WA.

Also do you notice any loss in actual range yet?

I haven't noticed any other than the GOM has not given me over 93miles on a full charge for a while. Late last week the weather was warm and it read 90mi with the climate control off. Typically I see 85-88 mi with climate control on.
David D. Nelson

Blue 2016 Soul EV+ & Cloud 2018 Soul EV+ :D :o

SoulEV2016
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:13 am

Got it, the first travel with Deterioration indicator by cell raising ... ;)

1st travel LOGS : http://up.sur-la-toile.com/i1iac ( mirror = http://www.4shared.com/file/K7WgEKyyce/ ... 47-06.html )

2nd travel LOGS (same, return road) : http://up.sur-la-toile.com/i1iad ( http://www.4shared.com/file/F5qxDSmyce/ ... 42-26.html )

Image
Last edited by SoulEV2016 on Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

GizmoEV
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Kelso, WA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:32 pm

Looks like maybe the Windows 10 app doesn't understand all the Torque formulas yet. Here is what I get from Torque on an Android tablet...

Cumulative Energy Charged = 7428.0 kWh
Cumulative Energy Discharged = 7231.9 kWh
Difference = 196.1 kWh ~97.5% efficient

Not sure how close the correlation of energy with Ah is: 20,122.9Ah charged, 20,210.8Ah discharged. (~99.6% efficient)
Operating time = 1975.8 h

Amp-hour efficiency seems about what I would expect with energy efficiency lower since the voltage is lower on discharge than on charge.

Max Deterioration = 10.0% (Cell #11)
Min Deterioration = 7.4% (Cell #37)

The car just passed 25k miles and has had a quick charge to 84% (80% BMS) since last change.
David D. Nelson

Blue 2016 Soul EV+ & Cloud 2018 Soul EV+ :D :o

JejuSoul
Posts: 1379
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:36 pm

Deterioration numbers on my car went back up. Am now 24,503km max 7.0% min 5.1%.
This puts me back to the middle of the pack, slightly behind Birkeland and Elmil, which is where my car has been in this race for most of the past year.
That mtndrew1's car is so far out in front seems to be an outlier caused by having so few readings.
Over a complete year things seem to average out.

(An alternative explanation to why my deterioration numbers went back up is that the weather has been unusually hot here the last few days. September was mostly 10C cooler than the summer. But the temps have been back in the 30s recently. The really unusual part is that the nights are that hot in October. The AC is back on. The battery heater is needed all the time again. My Energy Economy is going back down to summer levels. This is is all caused by the approaching typhoon, which will hit in 12 hours.)
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Birkeland
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:35 am

I just had my car in for my second service (30.000km service). My SOH was still at 100%, min det = 7.1% and max det = 9.0%. My odometer is at about 32.000km.
Owner of a 2015 KIA Soul Exclusive, Titanium Silver

mtndrew1
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:39 pm

Looks like I'm no longer an outlier.

30,500 miles (49,100 km)
CEC 10,263
CED 9,807
Min det 11.4%
Max det 13.2%
Min cell #19
Max cell #3

I've had the car 24 months now.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1379
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:18 pm

mtndrew1 wrote:Looks like I'm no longer an outlier.
No. That was a big jump downwards but that is not the first time I have seen this.You now join the rest of the pack. It's no longer worth making a ranking order because all our cars are pretty much the same (160,000km +/-10,000). Exceptions are zero deterioration new cars. And two outliers to the downside. ilectric who discusses his loss of range in the 26,000 mile thread. And Leafer who bought a demo car, which we assume was badly used/kept.

---------------------------

I charged from 7% to 100% last night as part of a calibration check.
Got 200km on the GOM for the first time in many months.

Image

18 month old car 24,994km , max det 7.5%, min det 5.8%

Energy charged = 25.2 kWh => Full pack 25/0.925 = 27.24kWh
I am still confident that my car has 100% SOH
Last edited by JejuSoul on Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

JejuSoul
Posts: 1379
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:47 am
Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Ageing Model

Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:52 am

I began this morning with a fully charged car.
max det 7.5%, min det 4.7%. Started at 100% GOM 200km

I drove fast over the mountain 110km/h, decelerating hard before the speed cameras. Very unusual driving speed and style for my car.
An hour later my deterioration numbers were:

Image
Last edited by JejuSoul on Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

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