Skellington
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 5:52 am

Re: brakes failed

Sat May 09, 2015 8:20 am

Any word on the brakes? This is the first time I've seen something that makes me hesitate to go buy a Soul EV this month.

And as a LEAF owner, I've been warned that if I need body work, that they must remove the battery pack before they doing any curing of the paint.

Googling turns up 140 degrees as the maximum temperature. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/images ... _Paint.pdf

Good luck!

carverbaby
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:12 am

Re: brakes failed

Sat May 09, 2015 10:38 am

I got assigned a new claims adjuster which is good because I like this person better. Quite frankly, I'm a bit disappointed in how this was handled by AAA and I did expired this to the new adjuster. I don't understand why they would have authorized repairs prior to kia even looking at the car when my stance was that it was a brake issue. If they do find something they could have saved the money spent on the parts they ordered already.
Anyway, kia's flying someone up to look at the car on Wednesday. No point in worrying about what ifs until they check the car out. And they did say that they can't access the data remotely. Also that even the dealerships can't pull the unit out/read the data and that the data is permanent even if the batteries are completely dead.
For what it's worth, I do love everything about the car except that there's no power seats and it's not a convertible. I don't really want any other car but my wife understandably does not feel the same

carverbaby
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:12 am

Re: brakes failed

Fri May 15, 2015 11:25 am

i just got off the phone w/ Kia and got bad news in that they did not find anything wrong w/ the car. What's worse is that they're saying that impact was not sufficient to trigger the EDR data so they have no black box data to review. I asked if the 'black box' is supposed to be constantly recording but they said that the recording is only triggered by certain parameters and the car was going slow enough that it did not trigger recording.
the fact that the car was going so slow that the the EDR data was not recorded kind of corroborates our version of the events in that we clearly did not step on the accelerator instead of the brake and that the car basically rolled into the storefront. my wife was certainly stomping on something and it sure as heck wasn't the gas but kia's engineer did not find anything mechanically wrong w/ the car. which was my biggest fear b/c now they won't assume any responsibility and it becomes our word against whoever's.

i'll have to call AAA and see what they say but they've told me before that they're just an insurance company and this is between us and Kia.

fkkkkkkkk

carverbaby
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:12 am

Re: brakes failed

Fri May 15, 2015 12:11 pm

Just talked to insurance and it's bad news. Because there's no evidence of defect/failure, we basically have to accept responsibility.
Guilty and I don't even know how we can prove we're innocent.
Anybody have any ideas on what else I can do?

notfred
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: brakes failed

Fri May 15, 2015 3:43 pm

Demand a transcript of the crash recorder data. It should show what pedals were pressed and when.

carverbaby
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:12 am

Re: brakes failed

Fri May 15, 2015 4:52 pm

They're saying that the impact wasn't big enough to even trigger the crash recorder data. Is that possible? From the way they were talking before, it sounded like it was an "always on"type thing

notfred
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Re: brakes failed

Sat May 16, 2015 11:13 am

Most crash recorders are always on and holding the last few seconds of data by doing an overwriting loop through the memory. A big enough impact will stop it from doing the overwriting loop so that data can be captured. In your case if the impact wasn't big enough and I suspect the vehicle has been powered on for more then a few seconds then the data will have been overwritten. They need a big enough impact to trigger so that they don't go off every time you go over a bump in the road - normally an impact big enough to trigger the airbags even if it was in a direction that wouldn't cause the airbags to fire.

Skellington
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 5:52 am

Re: brakes failed

Sat May 16, 2015 6:38 pm

I don't think you can prove anything; certainly not in a court of law; with the information you have available. So you'll have to take responsibility for now, and then..

(Just brainstorming)

- Is there anything going on with the accelerator pedal? There was a recall on them. Is the gizmo installed as part of the recall there, and possibly causing problems?

- Post to other Soul EV internet forums about your issue (Facebook has a decent sized group), so if someone else has the problem, they can contact you about it.

- Assuming you keep the car and think it could conceivably happen again, consider installing a dash cam, with a second camera mounted where it can see the pedals? (Might not work at night, but might be better than nothing.)

- Try to duplicate the problem. Was it a super-short trip? Some EVs have strange behaviors when they're at 100% charge and can't/won't do regenerative braking. (Ford Focus according to http://electrifyatlanta.com/wp/?page_id=25 )

But I put in an order anyway... Hopefully won't regret it.

AyeJay
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:59 pm
Location: sf bay area

Re: brakes failed

Sun May 17, 2015 10:11 am

Hi Carverbaby,

Sorry to hear you're having problems getting KIA to help.

When I had a Charging Module Failure it was a struggle at first as well... The first case worker I was in contact with at KIA consumer affairs was pretty sketchy.

Eventually, I felt it would be prudent to gently suggest that KIA probably wouldn't want customers criticizing their new EV model or their service network out on the internet.
I'm not saying they were unfair but some reason for them to take action needed to come to light ...

A new case representative called me the next day and I was told everything would be taken care of.

Clearly, each repair incident is different but that's what worked for me.

:| .. AJ
- 2015 KIA Soul EV base
- 1982 VW 'Caddy' Rabbit TD Pickup

mtndrew1
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: brakes failed

Tue May 19, 2015 12:14 pm

I must say this is starting to sound to me like a classic case of pedal misapplication. This sort of thing came to light in the Toyota "scandal" a few years back and the vast majority of crashes were from traditional pedal misapplication. Same with the Audi 5000 and Jeep Grand Cherokee issues. Very few actual defects ever found, just changes to prevent user error.

Since regen takes the car down to ~3 MPH before the friction brakes kick in, that is about the speed the car would be going in the event that the friction brake system failed, particularly in a parking lot situation. In order to do $12,000 of damage to the car I would imagine the car would need to be going faster than 3 MPH.

Furthermore, the pyrotechnics that would have triggered the data recorder freeze (seatbelt pretensioners, airbags) only activate when the vehicle has a pretty massive deceleration over a very short period of time. From 40 MPH to 0 MPH in .2 seconds, etc. So we have a window here wherein the car is going greater than 3-5 MPH but not fast enough to trigger pyrotechnics.

Sounds to me like your wife had slowed the car to the point where it couldn't accelerate fast enough to decelerate quickly enough for pyrotechnics, then inadvertently applied the accelerator and hit the wall.

Despite there being no "black box" data because the deceleration rate wasn't severe enough to trigger a freeze of information, if the brake system had in fact failed there would be a telltale dash warning light and a code stored in the ECU.

Brake masters and high-pressure systems tend to be pretty binary in regards to them working or not; I find it unlikely that the system failed briefly then un-failed back to a ready state. I suppose anything is possible but this seems far-fetched. Even if the friction brake system had in fact failed, regen should have brought the car down to a very low speed before the vehicle was out of control.

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