Soul's charger allowing less amps

I did some 8k km so far, black Soul model year 2016. Car is very nice, better then every other EV in his class. Im satisfied with range.
Last week i checked charging with ampermeter on my l2 16 amps/230v outlet. What i discovered, shocked me! It was charging with 14 amps... Well, i tried again with 20 amps outlet, it was charging with 18 amps! Same on my 25 amps, only with 23 amps. And finally 26 amps out of 32...
Took my car to Kia service, where we checked every parameter of battery and charger, just to discovered that car is fine. Then we tested charging on diff outets and find out what i already knew.
Well, we took testing further. Kia brought Soul model 2015 in, and guess what? It charged perfectly. 16 amps out of 16 amps outlet. Same with diff outlets.
Then they admit that model 2016 have different SW and that Kia downgraded internal charger for some 10- 15% of its stated amp charg8ng as to be more safe???? WTH? For me that means 5 hrs instead of 4 hrs. And noone told me that.
Can anyone test his car to confirm my fears?

I found the same thing. I wondered why the L1 Kia EVSE took longer than the displayed charge time before charging. I measured the actual current and discovered that the car charges at a bit lower rate than what the EVSE tells it it can have.

Here is what I found (using a clamp meter):
Kia supplied EVSE for US market on 120VAC, supposed to be 12A charges at 11.0A
Panasonic (Nissan) EVSE on 120VAC, 12A=>10.4A, 16A=>14.3A, 20A=>18.4A
Panasonic (Nissan) EVSE on 240VAC, 20A=>18.4A

Since the 20A charge rate on both 120V and 240V was 18.4A that if I tested the lower charging rates on 240V they would be the same as those on 120V.

This is frustrating to me. Why did they have to derate the onboard charger rather than just the supplied EVSE? At least the portable Panasonic EVSE I have is programmable but I shouldn't have to program it to 14A just to get the car to charge at 12A! Kia could have easily put a switch on their supplied EVSE for a high rate or low rate so if the charging kept tripping the breaker or blowing a fuse then the owner could switch it to the low rate and slow the charge rate by a couple of amps.

I'm going to add this to my list of things Kia needs to address. I just need to find who to send it to who will listen.

Thank you for your reply, i thought i was the only one withbthis problem.
I charge 20 amps to get exactly as you, aroundish 18. But thats crazy and in my case not safe for house outlet!
Im almost sure we are looking at sw glitch not hw one. Weird is that older 2015 model charge as intended. My buddy told me that he gets around 31 amps on max charging, thats 25% per hour instead of mine 21%.....

Kia, thats not cool!

Hi to all!

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been driving electric since 2008 with my Vectrix electric maxi-scooter (I still have it parked in my garage in perfect working order & looking as new):




Then, in July 2012, I upgraded to Opel Ampera (European Chevy Volt). I've done 94.000km so far, with Lifetime consumption of 0.65l/100km. I love the car, but I was ready to move on to fully BEV and discovered, that Soul EV would be a nice upgrade, especially, because the Central European Highways are being upgraded with 50kW Combo Charging Stations (50kW CHADEMO DC & 43kW type2 AC & 50kW CCS): http://www.cegc-project.eu/network

So being without an ICE would not present a problem, especially since we have another ICE vehicle at home (which has done only 2000km since we own an Ampera ;-) ).

Kia dealer in my country has a last this year's Soul EV in the lot, a black&red one, which I love. My friend got one, but then we discovered this problem, when we charged the car. At 10 Amps, my Ampera was drawing more current(10 Amps) from the outlet, than his Soul was (8.5 Amps).

So he took his to the dealer and confirmed what is written in this thread. Unfortunately, the black one I'm looking at, is also a MY2016 and this is a real downer for me.

It's not up to Kia to baby the user by lowering the charging rate of what the EVSE or the charging station tells the car to charge at. The car should obey the charging station and draw as much current as the charging station allows to. My time is to precious to waste by charging to slow.
If Kia has worries, it should do what GM/Opel did, that is, the ability to switch between 6A and 10A on the provided mobile EVSE unit or through charging setting within the car's menu, but certainly not degrade the charging of the car in such a way.

I'm having a test drive on Saturday, but until Kia resolves this issue, I don't think I'll be switching my Ampera for the Soul EV.

Chevy Bolt is coming soon, so I have options left.

Interesting. Maybe it was done to enhance the battery's longevity? It's like a mild underclocking.

Thats exactly what they told me. Works as intended....

fanbanlo said:

Interesting. Maybe it was done to enhance the battery's longevity? It's like a mild underclocking.

Click to expand...

If that was true, KIA would only limit the highest charging current, let's say at 25 Amps, not all of them.

Edit: Also, Soul EV allows fast charging at up to 100kW via CHADEMO. I don't think that at 6.6kW (0.21C) the 31kWh battery can be harmed in any way.

Either it's a software bug or they unintentionally changed the charger hardware from MY2015 to MY2016 so that it introduced the hardware bug.
Knowing the EVSE protocol, it could be down to the wiring of the pilot signal. The pilot signal of the charging station or the EVSE sends an analog signal (12V and below (after the handshake)) to the car to let the car know, at what max current can the car charge. If there's an unintentional resistance added from the J1172 plug to the charger, it could make that 12V voltage lower, thus causing the charger to think it should charge slower than what the charging station advertises.

https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics

It's not going to be resistance in the circuit, it's the width of the pulses that the EVSE uses to signal the car with how much current it can supply.

I suspect it is done as an additional "safety" step, there are plenty of poor 120V sockets and some EVSE circuits with issues. They've just decided in software to backoff the charging by 10% to avoid stories about houses being burnt down while charging Soul EVs.

Personally I would rather that they had an option in the settings menu with the default of -10% but allow you to switch it to full charge.

Thank you for the detail regarding the EVSE's pilot signal.

Kia should have done what Chevy did with the Volt - to always default to 8A charging at 120V (L1 - home charging) and charge at 12A only at specific user request via the menu on the center screen. However, the L2 charging should be left at max current the charging station allows - that's how it's done with the Volt.

DeLonghi said:

I charge 20 amps to get exactly as you, aroundish 18. But thats crazy and in my case not safe for house outlet!

Click to expand...

Actually, it is safer for your house if the current draw is lower than the continuous rating of the circuit. The problem is that charging at 20A should be on a 30A circuit which can easily handle 24A continuous. If Kia wants to "protect" the charging circuit then they should only do so if the difference between loaded and unloaded voltage drops more than a reasonable amount.

What they have done is basically reduced the value of any EVSE I use and did it without my permission! They need to just follow the specifications. Change their own EVSE if they want, not the OBC. I guess that I have to make sure to always buy an EVSE that can do more than 6.6kW to be sure the car will charge at the max it is capable of. That is if they just tell the charger to charge at ~10% less than the pilot signal indicates. Maybe if it is told to draw over 31A then the charger will draw the presumed max of 27.5A on 240V.

DeLonghi said:

Kia, thats not cool!

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more!

GizmoEV said:

If Kia wants to "protect" the charging circuit then they should only do so if the difference between loaded and unloaded voltage drops more than a reasonable amount.

Click to expand...

That's not an ideal solution as well. Tesla does it, but it's not necessarily a correct solution. For example. I live in an apartment and I have a 60 meter long (width = 5mm2 = rated for 25A) cable installed by an electrician to my parking space in the garage from my apartment.
Now, the 2.5mm2 cable width is sufficient for 16A charging, so my 5mm2 cable is more than enough. It doesn't even get slightly warm. But since the length of the cable is quite long, even with the 5mm2 cable, at 15A my Ampera draws, the voltage can fall between 10V-16V when at load.
In your case, the car's software could think, that the plug is under to much load because of the voltage drop, when in fact it's not. The voltage drop in my case is due to the length of the cable, not because of the quality of the cable or the wiring.

I still think the best solution is, what GM has for the Volt and Volt2, that's default current of 8A at 120V (L1), which can be overridden by a user, but at L2 (240V), it charges at max what the EVSE offers.

AndY1 said:

GizmoEV said:

If Kia wants to "protect" the charging circuit then they should only do so if the difference between loaded and unloaded voltage drops more than a reasonable amount.

Click to expand...

That's not an ideal solution as well. Tesla does it, but it's not necessarily a correct solution. For example. I live in an apartment and I have a 60 meter long (width = 5mm2 = rated for 25A) cable installed by an electrician to my parking space in the garage from my apartment.
Now, the 2.5mm2 cable width is sufficient for 16A charging, so my 5mm2 cable is more than enough. It doesn't even get slightly warm. But since the length of the cable is quite long, even with the 5mm2 cable, at 15A my Ampera draws, the voltage can fall between 10V-16V when at load.
In your case, the car's software could think, that the plug is under to much load because of the voltage drop, when in fact it's not. The voltage drop in my case is due to the length of the cable, not because of the quality of the cable or the wiring.

I still think the best solution is, what GM has for the Volt and Volt2, that's default current of 8A at 120V (L1), which can be overridden by a user, but at L2 (240V), it charges at max what the EVSE offers.

Click to expand...

If you are seeing that much voltage drop you didn't install a large enough wire. True, the size of the wire will handle the current but that is only the safety side of the equation. Any knowledgeable commercial electrician will tell you that the wire needs to be sized for both voltage and acceptable voltage drop at the extreme end.

If the OBC is setup properly then it can be told to change charging current on the fly. The EVSE that comes with the car can then take care of changing the charge rate based on voltage drop since it is intended to be for portable use rather than permanent installation.

In any case, the OBC should still charge at the rate the EVSE signals as long as it is within the rating of the OBC and not lower.

Well, it's been sized by a electrician and so far, not one of the EVs (Vectrix, Prius Plug-In, Opel Ampera, Kia SOUL EV) hasn't complained. The Kia I've tested on Saturday, was a MY2015, so it charged at full 16A and everything was ok. There was only a drop of 10V from 230V (unloaded) to 220V (under load).
I've had EVs since 2008, so I think I'm good

GizmoEV said:

In any case, the OBC should still charge at the rate the EVSE signals as long as it is within the rating of the OBC and not lower.

Click to expand...

I agree.

AndY1 said:

Well, it's been sized by a electrician and so far, not one of the EVs (Vectrix, Prius Plug-In, Opel Ampera, Kia SOUL EV) hasn't complained.

Click to expand...

I assume you meant that not one of the EVs has complained.

AndY1 said:

The Kia I've tested on Saturday, was a MY2015, so it charged at full 16A and everything was ok. There was only a drop of 10V from 230V (unloaded) to 220V (under load).
I've had EVs since 2008, so I think I'm good

Click to expand...

As long as you are good with a 160W loss then it is no problem.

GizmoEV said:

AndY1 said:

Well, it's been sized by a electrician and so far, not one of the EVs (Vectrix, Prius Plug-In, Opel Ampera, Kia SOUL EV) hasn't complained.

Click to expand...

I assume you meant that not one of the EVs has complained.

AndY1 said:

The Kia I've tested on Saturday, was a MY2015, so it charged at full 16A and everything was ok. There was only a drop of 10V from 230V (unloaded) to 220V (under load).
I've had EVs since 2008, so I think I'm good

Click to expand...

As long as you are good with a 160W loss then it is no problem.

Click to expand...

1. Yes, I'm sorry.
2. I am Doubling the wire width would reduce the loss only by 80W, but greatly increase the cost of 60 meters of wire (from 5mm^2 I have right now to 10mm^2).

AndY1 said:

2. I am Doubling the wire width would reduce the loss only by 80W, but greatly increase the cost of 60 meters of wire (from 5mm^2 I have right now to 10mm^2).

Click to expand...

What, you don't like a 100 year ROI? :lol:

:lol:

Has anyone tried setting the pilot signal higher, like to 40A?