2016Electric
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:30 am

JeroenE wrote:
notfred wrote:Those current loops are the GFCI loops, current going out on one must match current coming back on the other else there is a Ground Fault. I think it is part of the standard and that's why I think you need a microcontroller. The EVSE does a startup test and drives all 3 LEDs before settling down.

I don't think it is part of the standard. I don't have ithe standard though (you have to pay to get it).

Another guy has posted images of his commercial available EVSE calles ev-box. That one is sold over here, you see them a lot. It looks like they are also sold elsewhere, but because it's Dutch company I'm guessing they are not very common elsewhere. If you click on the link you can see a bit more about them.

That EVSE does not have GFCI coils. It only has a controller, contactor/relay, power supply and wire connectors. Here is the original product the other guy bought second-hand:

Image

And this is the inside:
Image

You can find more pictures here, but all the rest don't show the green cable to the Type 1 connector.

In Europe most circuits have their own GFCI so it is not needed for appliances to do this on their own. But because there is probably none or very little difference between the EU and USA versions they are there anyway.

So, I opened up my ICCB again and this time took the time to remove the PCB and check the other side. As you predicted here is a microprocessor in the Kia ICCB too. I have updated my album with some pictures from the other side. Actually I removed the album and created another because for some reason I couldn't add pictures. Probably me, I never used imgur before.

The PCB is coated, I'm assuming for protection against moisture. This makes it impossible to read the make and model of the bigger components. On the cpu they have put a large sticker anyway. Because I removed the PCB I could see the writing on the side of the big black components and it is a relay. The writing is a little bit unclear, but I hope you can read it anyway. It days it is a 240V relay. I'm sure it'll switch 120V just fine, but perhaps they use different ones in the standard USA version?


Hey that's fantastic, thanks for all the detailed images. I'll have a look inside mine and see how it compares. Maybe the only difference IS the mains plug, and perhaps the duty cycle for the amperage (10A for you, 12A for us). I'll let you know once I have a moment to open it up.

2016Electric
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:03 am

Another thing I am still wondering..

How does the onboard charger decide between level 1 vs. level 2 charging? It's my understanding that the EVSE simply provides the amperage available via the square wave duty cycle...
Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

JeroenE
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:46 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:58 am

2016Electric wrote:Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

We only do level 2 charging here. Level 1 charging is at 120V and we don't have that readily available.

I think the car sees the difference in voltage and acts accordingly.

2016Electric
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:15 am

JeroenE wrote:
2016Electric wrote:Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

We only do level 2 charging here. Level 1 charging is at 120V and we don't have that readily available.

I think the car sees the difference in voltage and acts accordingly.



Makes sense - hard to do L1 when you don't have 120v available.
I would think the onboard charger would have to be able to adjust for voltage differences / changes, as line voltage could sag or spike at any time.

GizmoEV
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:39 pm
Location: Kelso, WA

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:30 am

2016Electric wrote:Another thing I am still wondering..

How does the onboard charger decide between level 1 vs. level 2 charging? It's my understanding that the EVSE simply provides the amperage available via the square wave duty cycle...
Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?


I don't have a direct answer to your question but I do know when I was attempting to charge with my generator that my EVSEUpgrade Panasonic EVSE thought it was on 240V based on the blink code (20 blinks) indicating the programmed amperage available. My generator only puts out 120V. When I attempted to charge the generator got overloaded so the OBC backed off, the generator recovered, the OBC ramped up until the generator overloaded, and the cycle continued. This indicated to me that the OBC will charge at more than 12A on 120V. I got my EVSEUpgrade EVSE updated to allow 16A on 120V and the KIA Soul EV does in fact charge at more than 12A on 120V. :D I do wish EVSEUpgrade allowed programming upto 20A on 120V because this would be great when at an RV park and only 120V 30A is available.

FWIW, EVSEUpgrade says that the KIA EVSE is only programmable for 12A on either 120V or 240V. The Panasonic EVSE that came with the LEAFs doesn't have this limitation. The EVSEUpgraded version is quite simple to program from the user's perspective. Maybe you could pick up an original one and modify it yourself.
David D. Nelson

Blue 2016 Soul EV+ & Cloud 2018 Soul EV+ :D :o

2016Electric
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:57 am

2016Electric wrote:
JeroenE wrote:
2016Electric wrote:Does the onboard charger detect the voltage being supplied and then make a level 1 / level 2 decision?

We only do level 2 charging here. Level 1 charging is at 120V and we don't have that readily available.

I think the car sees the difference in voltage and acts accordingly.



Makes sense - hard to do L1 when you don't have 120v available.
I would think the onboard charger would have to be able to adjust for voltage differences / changes, as line voltage could sag or spike at any time.



I opened my ICCB up to have a look. Same as yours from what I could tell (power supply, relays), but a different white sticker on the second relay (says NAS instead of EU). Relays are still 12v coil.
Also, the board is red, and has a different revision number.

On the images you posted of your ICCB (back side of board), I noticed the relays are connected to a resistor and some portion of the control system. I wondered if that might be voltage sensing... perhaps that resistor is different for the 120/240 units...? Also, perhaps the control runs a different firmware in your ICCB... (actually, we know it does for sure, as yours is 10A and mine is 12)... but I wonder if duty cycle is the only difference in that firmware (or if it also includes something to do with sensing line voltage).

Makes me wonder what exactly EVSEupgrade does, aside from change the cord. I suppose there is a chance they change some components, but which ones??? since the power supply is universal... and the relays operate on 12v... I also don't see how they could reprogram the units, as the board is likely proprietary. Hmm.

Don't exactly want to try hooking it up to 240v to test it though, to avoid as you say... smoke. LOL

Firehead
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:37 pm

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 pm

:)
Hi Everyone, my first post here. I'm in north America and I use m'y Kia EVSE stock at 240V 12A whitout any modification.

Whitout Smoke, lol.

I simply made an adapter cable of oven to L5-20R. Not politicly correct but Working well.

I made another welder cable to l5-20r.

Here in north America we work whit 2 Line of 120 V monophase . So the EVSE receive 120 V on each Line. At 12 A the Power is 2880 watts. The soul EV is reloaded in 10hours. Better than 24 hours at 120v 12A (1440W)


Note that the l5-20r is designed for 120V 20A, so it can handle 2400 watts. Here's the workaround. But it work well whitout heat.

SoulEV2016
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:26 am

2016Electric wrote:Another thing I am still wondering..
It's my understanding that the EVSE simply provides the amperage available via the square wave duty cycle...


Yes AND allow or not the main contactor AND verify the car (diode circuit + GND/Earth connexion).
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=434&view=unread#p7443
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

pthack
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:15 am

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:03 pm

So can I just wire up a converter/adapter that wires the hot leads from a 14-50 or 6-30 to the 2 blades in a 5-15R socket?
Preserving the Green ground wire...

After all, it's still only 12A...

Pete.

2016Electric
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:05 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Included Level 1 Charger (North America vs. Europe)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:26 pm

Hey PTHACK,

For an answer to your question, check out my other post in the trickle charger forum posted today.

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