Car stuck at dealer for 3 months awaiting warranty battery replacement (2017 Soul EV)

[buddhaauthor]

Add me to the list. We got the diagnosis for our 2016 car on 3/27 at Kia of Irvine after about 9 days of them fiddling with it, and we’re waiting for battery replacement #2 with no ETA on it’s arrival from wherever. Linda is very helpful, but likely stuck in the middle of quite a mess. Meanwhile, we spent the first couple of weeks juggling rentals to get one that is below the $43.50 stated coverage by Kia for our 20 year old primary driver … something that the dealer’s rental partner (Enterprise) wouldn’t do. Some of the days will be over the promised amount; some below. Will Kia optimize their reimbursement for each day on each receipt, or let us average it out? I’m fearing the worst.

For reference, this battery that we’re waiting to replace was listed as part number 37510 E4200R in my records from when it was replaced (2/2021). That battery has been really good, and I was feeling really good about Kia for stepping up and providing it. I’m not at all sure how this chapter will turn out, with all those rental charges just piling up for us to pay, hoping they’ll step up in the end. Kinda crazy!

The thing that most amazes me is that Kia wouldn’t just make these customers a sweet offer to buy a new car or to just buy them out without a friction-filled request process. Are these rental car charges plus the cost of replacing the battery really less than doing that? It’s just hard to fathom the business case for that plan. Really hard.

Hi PopcornAndData,

I've had three 2016 Soul EVs. My second was from Kia of Irvine and I had an unpleasant experience there, but at least they do sell a number of EVs and know what they are doing regarding servicing them. I also have a young driver in my home (19) and know how enormously that complicates a rental.

I share your (and everyone's) frustration at Kia's handling of this situation. Still, Kia is a huge, multinational corporation and I reckon their attention to this matter does not rise above the level of the bean counters. When it impacts sales of their excellent new EVs it will rise higher. At that point we will receive reasonable corporate attention. Until then, we should expect avoidance, obfuscation, and whatever other tactical evasions they can come up with. This is why I am still rolling the dice on my excellent 2022 replacement battery.

This post doesn't actually help you, sorry. But I hope it conveys solidarity.

Franz

 

[Ationg]

Same here, I would like the name of the lawyer you're using in your case. With enough clients with the same issue, maybe Kia Corp will do something.

 

[JordanRieger]

@Nedhastings Please post the name of that lawyer here. If you can private-message me your name, too, that would be great, so that if I talk to them, they can look up the case and put 2 and 2 together.

 

[JordanRieger]

Thanks for the PM @Nedhastings.

FYI, a new case manager named Tiffany has been assigned to me. (Maybe Linda got fed up and quit Kia!) She called me to ask if I had any questions, but she had no new updates. When I questioned why there is no ETA on the battery replacement, she initially seemed to imply that there was an investigation going on at Kia internally regarding the battery issues after BMS updates and issues with faulty replacements. But I explained that my issue was occurring prior to the BMS update (which was just a routine step my local tech did while confirming the ~50% SOH) and that I haven't had a replacement battery yet, so it was simply a matter of getting my dealer that battery.

When I pressed her, she couldn't offer any concrete explanation of why the replacement battery status has been "Shipped, in USA, and awaiting quality checks" for the last ~6 months. The frustrating part is that someone in Kia obviously knows what's going on, but they won't share that info with us. Why is it awaiting quality checks? Did it fail quality checks?

It seems far more likely that, as one poster said above, that status in their system is fictional, the battery is not yet shipped, possibly not yet even built, and Kia is simply waiting until they get a large enough batch of replacement orders so that it's cheaper to process them all at once. It really does come down to money. That's why if they offer me a lowball buyback after all this time, I'll be really upset. They could easily resolve this by offering a reasonable buyback to compensate us, but they're not.

I haven't yet spoken with the lawyer, but I fear that may be the only remaining option.

 

[ksoul2084]

This really feels to me like KIA found out they have a much larger problem with the battery fire issue, or at least with the BMS recall indicating more vehicles with problems than they anticipated, and now they're trying to figure out their next move (aka least cost to them move).

Possible scenarios:

1. They've found other issues than the type they were expecting with the batteries and are analyzing them to determine a solution. This would explain why they haven't installed your new pack if they suspect it might have other issues.
2. They're just busy manufacturing a bunch of new replacement packs (seems unlikely).
3. They're figuring out a buy-back program to get these battery-lemons off the road for good.
4. They're stalling for time hoping more of these cars are just abandoned by their owners.

All conjecture on my part, I know nothing.

 

[suttercane]

Just chiming in here! I was told I needed a new battery, I am out of warranty so worked out the finances and figured it would still be a good idea to purchase the battery out of pocket.

This was 2 weeks ago, I was told it would be a couple of weeks to get the parts in. Just was told yesterday that it's on "backorder" and they don't know when it's coming now. They also said that Kia Canada stopped working with a partner that did battery disposal/recycling, so that is causing delays as well, as they have to now find someone to take the old battery?

This is frustrating to say the least. I still am in possession of the vehicle, but I am borrowing my wifes car for the time being as the soul can't be trusted to make the commute.

 

[uspurs]

This really feels to me like KIA found out they have a much larger problem with the battery fire issue, or at least with the BMS recall indicating more vehicles with problems than they anticipated, and now they're trying to figure out their next move (aka least cost to them move).

Possible scenarios:

1. They've found other issues than the type they were expecting with the batteries and are analyzing them to determine a solution. This would explain why they haven't installed your new pack if they suspect it might have other issues.
2. They're just busy manufacturing a bunch of new replacement packs (seems unlikely).
3. They're figuring out a buy-back program to get these battery-lemons off the road for good.
4. They're stalling for time hoping more of these cars are just abandoned by their owners.

All conjecture on my part, I know nothing.

Nothing wrong with a bit of conjecture

I am leaning towards 1 - we have so far been fortunate not to see any problems since we had SC267 almost 8 weeks ago on a reman pack installed last summer. Clearly, a certain % have seen problems and I also suspect that Kia are loathe to replace more packs until they better understand the issue.
Based on most recent driving - now we're out of winter - I think we're close to our '17 having a real-world range of ~120 miles.

That said, the way Kia are treating owners is a disgrace. I am still discussing with them a 'goodwill' compensation for being without the car for 14 weeks before the battery was replaced. I shared my expenses for the 6 or 7 shop visits across 3 dealerships and that 14 weeks - covering transportation to / from (~50 miles each way), additional cost of running the ICE during the period, a few days of car rental, etc. - and their offer was less than $200.
They are not even sharing the basis for the number they supplied. It also took them 3 weeks longer than promised to review what I submitted (receipts, Amtrak tix, etc.).

I am weighing up next steps.

 

[nileriver]

I have no idea of the total number of owners. And someone mentioned that it takes numbers to get class-action type law firms interested. But from what I have read on this forum, there are owners who have been grievously damaged by Kia’s malfeasance. And this is obviously far from over, or resolved. Some mentions have been given regarding a buy-back. I paid $14,000 for my 2016+ with 57,000 miles last July. Now I’m told it’s worth about $4000 in trade. I suspect a large reason for the steep, rapid drop in the value of these cars may be because of these unresolved problems. If Kia offered me $4000 buy-back, I think I would instead insist that they fix the car instead. I actually love my car. If I had 120, or even 100 miles of range, and didn’t have a “thermal incident”, I’d be a happy camper.

 

[Locuturus]

I have no idea of the total number of owners. And someone mentioned that it takes numbers to get class-action type law firms interested. But from what I have read on this forum, there are owners who have been grievously damaged by Kia’s malfeasance. And this is obviously far from over, or resolved. Some mentions have been given regarding a buy-back. I paid $14,000 for my 2016+ with 57,000 miles last July. Now I’m told it’s worth about $4000 in trade. I suspect a large reason for the steep, rapid drop in the value of these cars may be because of these unresolved problems. If Kia offered me $4000 buy-back, I think I would instead insist that they fix the car instead. I actually love my car. If I had 120, or even 100 miles of range, and didn’t have a “thermal incident”, I’d be a happy camper.

IMO, the price drop on trade might also be related to the overall EV market and the drop on the resale price of cars. The guy from the YouTube channel Aging Wheels recently did a video about his Polestar 2 and it was like 70k or something brand new and out of warranty, 70k miles on it, and it was something like 14k or something ridiculously low… so it’s a mix of factors. TBH myself I’ll drive mine until it drops, and then maybe I’ll have someone recycle the battery to use as home solar energy storage.

 

[edman98]

Thanks for the PM @Nedhastings.

FYI, a new case manager named Tiffany has been assigned to me. (Maybe Linda got fed up and quit Kia!) She called me to ask if I had any questions, but she had no new updates. When I questioned why there is no ETA on the battery replacement, she initially seemed to imply that there was an investigation going on at Kia internally regarding the battery issues after BMS updates and issues with faulty replacements. But I explained that my issue was occurring prior to the BMS update (which was just a routine step my local tech did while confirming the ~50% SOH) and that I haven't had a replacement battery yet, so it was simply a matter of getting my dealer that battery.

When I pressed her, she couldn't offer any concrete explanation of why the replacement battery status has been "Shipped, in USA, and awaiting quality checks" for the last ~6 months. The frustrating part is that someone in Kia obviously knows what's going on, but they won't share that info with us. Why is it awaiting quality checks? Did it fail quality checks?

It seems far more likely that, as one poster said above, that status in their system is fictional, the battery is not yet shipped, possibly not yet even built, and Kia is simply waiting until they get a large enough batch of replacement orders so that it's cheaper to process them all at once. It really does come down to money. That's why if they offer me a lowball buyback after all this time, I'll be really upset. They could easily resolve this by offering a reasonable buyback to compensate us, but they're not.

I haven't yet spoken with the lawyer, but I fear that may be the only remaining option.

We get similar non-answers from our case manager. Our 2016 Soul EV has been at Kia since Oct. no ETA. Only bright side is using their loaners. Our dealership has ~10 Soul EVs in the same state.

When under warranty, had battery replaced once. Otherwise no problems. Went out of warranty due to mileage but after wiring harness recall replacement, went into turtle mode immediately off the lot (never occurred before), then updated BMS with turtle mode next day. Then took a while with a new battery (happy to not have degradation). No turtle mode but asked to bring back.

 

[kimdavi]

It feels like a well-intentioned attempt to comply with the (federally-mandated?) recall backfired on Kia. Now they are between a rock and a hard place. They may not have a good solution. The replacement signal/sensor harness and BMS reprogramming identified more potentially failing batteries than were expected. The supply chain for obsolete batteries is not able to keep up, if it exists at all. Once the cars demonstrate the detected failure, they cannot be put back in the hands of owners, especially if there is a fire risk. Kia does not want time-bombs in the field.

So Kia corporate does the right thing and has the dealers impound the cars. The dealers probably have no visibility into a factory resolution; they’re just a convenient place to store the cars and help insulate the customers. The national Kia rep (Kia NA here) is also in the middle, and probably has just as little info to work with to keep the dealers happy. The factory appears to be doing a lousy job keeping all the layers informed, but that’s the fog of war and all. I recommend you be nice to your dealer as they too are victims of this mess and aren’t making a living off it.

Eventually something will happen. Kia may be actively working on a solution, or waiting to be sued, or preparing to buy back these cars, or just twisted in knots in typical corporate fashion. I guarantee you nobody up and down the chain WANTS to spend time and money on old problems, especially on defunct products that never made a profit to begin with.

My suggestion would be for Kia to apologize for the inconvenience, offer to swap every one of the recalled Souls for a new Niro EV, and bask in the good will.

All my opinion, for what it’s worth.

pg

My Kia dealer didn't impound my car. I got the BMS failure detection twice. Once after BMS recall, second after BMS "fixed" replaced battery. Frustrated with the lack of response, I demanded my car back after 3 months sitting idle. Dealer complied and returned my car with written paperwork that the car had not yet been fixed. Been driving it in power-limited mode for 7 weeks.