Battery Recall for cars with E400 high-voltage battery.

[JejuSoul]

... I hope some of you are at least amused by my story.

Good luck to everyone!

Yep. Thanks for posting this.

You are in good company. Only 326 of the 2689 had bothered to get this recall done according to the last recall update.

 

[kimdavi]

In North America this recall involves 2,689 cars. It consists of all 2018-2019 model year Soul EV vehicles manufactured from July 3, 2017 through September 28, 2018 equipped with an E400 battery and certain 2015-2017 model year Soul EVs manufactured from July 15, 2014 through June 30, 2017 that had their high voltage battery replaced under warranty with an E400 battery.
The majority of those 2,689 cars should be the 30kWh battery variants. Most of which have never had their original battery replaced.
And yet on this thread we almost only hear about the 27kWh cars that have had a replacement battery.
In the US it seems that most replacement battery packs were re-manufactured. But not all.
On this thread it is the re-manufactured packs that are failing the new software update. Often multiple times.
It is possible that the new BMS software which was written to check for bad cells was never tested on re-manufactured packs.
It maybe that the new software is failing, because it was badly written not because there is anything 'wrong' with the re-manufactured packs.

I still think it is a really bad idea to replace the faulty packs with other re-manufactured packs. The recall is about a fire risk and those re-manufactured packs do nothing to remove the underlying cause.

As far as I know the recall hasn't started yet in Europe. And I haven't heard of any failures yet in Korea.

I'm in agreement with your analysis. I see they have two options to the current recall problem. 1) Revise BMS Software or 2) Replace with non-remanufactured batteries. If you were Kia, what is the likely course of action?

 

[Nedhastings]

I'm in agreement with your analysis. I see they have two options to the current recall problem. 1) Revise BMS Software or 2) Replace with non-remanufactured batteries. If you were Kia, what is the likely course of action?

Software revision sounds least expensive, but they need to ensure safety too.

 

[uspurs]

Yep. Thanks for posting this.

You are in good company. Only 326 of the 2689 had bothered to get this recall done according to the last recall update.

View attachment 32

I wonder what the reason is for slow uptake? Maybe BMS harness and battery supply issues? Owner scepticism that Kia have actually got their sh1t together?

I would note that vehicles subject to the recall may not be sold until repaired (paraphrased from Kia's recall notice).

 

[JeroenE]

As far as I know the recall hasn't started yet in Europe. And I haven't heard of any failures yet in Korea.

I live in Europe in The Netherlands. I recently got one letter for two recalls. One for the BMS and one for the parking barrier (not sure if this is the correct English term).

Of course, the recalls have different numbering over here. The first is KRE23-17-P050-PS EV. Paraphrased it says: Due to a fault in the BMS it's possible that short circuits aren't detected. In special cases this can lead to thermal overload. To prevent this a software update will be done or the part will be replaced.

The second is KRE23-41-E040-PS EV. The Kia dealer is performing a software update to the parking barrier. This update prevents the vehicle from moving when the vehicle is switched on and P mode is selected. An addendum will be added in the manual.

I have a Soul EV from August 2014 and it has got a new battery when the old one was failing. I was told it was a new battery, but that dealer never supplied work orders or things like that. It's still a 27 kWh battery as far as I know. It has the same range as the replaced battery when that one was still new.

My Soul EV always puts on the EPB by itself when you switch the car off. Does the new software already puts the EPB on when you select P?

I also have a Hyundai Kona, that one doesn't even puts on the EPB when you turn it off. If I don't do that manually before switching the car off the car will slightly move when you release the braking pedal before exiting the car. Even though that car is newer than the Soul the way it handles parking is worse.

 

[JejuSoul]

Thanks for posting this Jeroen. This is confirmation that Europe was using re-manufactured packs for replacement of some or all of the worn out battery packs. I have responded to your parking brake question here. Electronic Parking Brake (EPB) firmware : (November 2023 - another recall)

Latest info for the number getting this recall done in North America. Now 973 / 2689.
I'm guessing people don't go in to get this done until the car is due for a service.
Anyway it's way better than the parking brake recall. that one is 34 / 6262

 

[JeroenE]

Latest info for the number getting this recall done in North America. Now 973 / 2689.
I'm guessing people don't go in to get this done until the car is due for a service.
Anyway it's way better than the parking brake recall. that one is 34 / 6262

I don't know abut the US, but if you make an appointment here for the recall (which I did) the appointment is 2 months in the future. Such a long wait is not only for the recall, the same applies when you want normal maintenance.

 

[JejuSoul]

Thanks for posting this Jeroen. This is confirmation that Europe was using re-manufactured packs for replacement of some or all of the worn out battery packs.

My mistake. It does not confirm re-manufactured packs. All packs containing E400 cells will be recalled. Both new E400 cells and old E400 cells.

 

[faf625]

Has anyone had their ev in the dealership so long that they moved to another state? I’m wondering how they will handle a loaner/rental car.

 

[buddhaauthor]

Hmm, tempting fate are you?!

It's not quite tempting fate, but I was just going through a stack of old paperwork I had misplaced and...

Yep, I found the recall. Now I have to make my safety/hassle decision.

 

[Nedhastings]

I’d like to know how many battery fires have occurred so far on the high voltage batteries that are out there, and how many of the recall-addressed vehicles have gone into limp mode.

 

[Kemo]

My mistake. It does not confirm re-manufactured packs. All packs containing E400 cells will be recalled. Both new E400 cells and old E400 cells.

Does anyone knows the part # of the pack? mine is 37510 E4350 (2018) replacement

 

[JejuSoul]

Does anyone knows the part # of the pack? mine is 37510 E4350 (2018) replacement

This shows the part number for the BMS. E4350 is for a pack with a battery heater.
It's on sale today at $12,348.63 :- Kia Part Store
This is a bargain compared to MY2015-MY2017 Packs. E4250 packs sell for $16,032.98
You can buy 100 cells for 4000 dollars less than 96 cells. (Both use the newer E400 cells)

Note - the re-manufactured packs are much much cheaper. A E4250R pack will cost $1595
Also interesting there aren't any re-manufactured packs for the MY2018 on sale.

 

[andrew1joe]

Has anyone else experienced premature DC fast charging taper with the software update? Unfortunately I didn't have OBD reader with me but pre-software update it would maintain full speed at 50kW charger until 78%. Yesterday I fast charged and it started at ~47kW but dropped to ~35kW at closer to 70%. I'll try to reproduce it with logging next time but I thought I'd ask here in case it's a known issue.

 

[JejuSoul]

Here's a copy of a reply I made on a different thread : - Long wait for potential 3rd 2015 Kia Soul battery replacement

...
On 9/27/23 I did a BMS recall (#23V218) for risk of fire. Apparently the BMS (battery management system) was upgraded and software updated. There were also two wiring harnesses replaced.
Then two months and 1400 miles later on 11/1/23 the EV! and Tortoise warning light came on again.
By 11/14/23 there was another new battery pack (part 37510-E4202R) and transfer harness installed.
One month later on 12/28/23, the EV! and Tortoise warning light came on once again. Took car back to Kia of Carson where it has been sitting since...

37510-E4200R and 37510-E4202R are both re-manufactured packs. They probably do not contain new cells. No-one knows what they actually do contain. We just know that this pack is ten times cheaper than a new pack. The re-manufactured packs seem to trigger a much higher failure rate in the updated BMS software than new packs. ( On this thread all the limp mode failures are re-manufactured packs. No new packs have failed. )

I don't know what the difference is between 37510-E4200R and 37510-E4202R other than the price.
Both are re-manufactured packs with 96 cells, and if you order the second one you may get the first one.
Maybe they just increase the number each year so we know how long that pack has been in storage, which would explain the price difference.
It would also suggest that the 37510-E4201R is exactly the same just made a year in the middle.

 

[mariano3113]

Has anyone else experienced premature DC fast charging taper with the software update? Unfortunately I didn't have OBD reader with me but pre-software update it would maintain full speed at 50kW charger until 78%. Yesterday I fast charged and it started at ~47kW but dropped to ~35kW at closer to 70%. I'll try to reproduce it with logging next time but I thought I'd ask here in case it's a known issue.

I assumed this might happen and was planning on doing a DC session but after Recall Software update only got 13 miles before Limp mode at 93% state of charge.

Vehicle has been at Kia since Dec 14th.
I am currently in a loaner 2024 AWD Sportage.

I have put almost 5000 miles on the loaner...so will be taking it in for service or swap.

Have no estimate from Kia...other than awaiting on Kia Corporate Engineers.

It would be good to know if DC charging curve was "mellowed"

The BMS update I had when my recent OBC died would allow 7kW AC charging and also would DCFC peak at 59kW (on a 62.5kW DCFC) with a pretty flat curve. It was still pulling 27kW at 90%. (DC cap was still 94%)
I think that whole session from 2% to 94% was around 23 minutes.

Edit* Found it on Chargepoint App: 18.939kWh Energy delivered 24 min charging session on July 31 2023
Cost was $1.52 for the session.

7350 N Dobson Rd Scottsdale, AZ 85256
Formerly Chargepoint HQ in Arizona only 8 cents per kWh pricing for DC charging. (R.I.P.)
Near the Top Golf and Talking Stick Resort


Comment from Avery on Plugshare about that low cost location:
"As a general reminder - ChargePoint has NOT renewned their lease for this office complex (this was known by common people who charged here and talked to the staff in late 2021/early 2022).

When the power does come back on to these units, it is highly doubtful that they will work again until someone takes over the lease for these and provides power (and if they do, the $/kWh will more than likely increase as it was cheap due to it being a test unit for software and vehicle connections)."

I'll drive the Lightning by and see if it is still operational.

That DC station was the only way I could do 160 mile days in the Soul.
Both my Bolt and Lightning don't have a need to DCFC for city runabouts.
Delivering a Washer and Dryer into Fountain Hills from Chandler was a 2 trip run for the Soul or Bolt. With the Lightning it can be done in a Single Trip.
(About the only time the Truck is more efficient than EV Hatchbacks/Wagons)**

 

[faf625]

Kia Corporate reached out to me via email. Invited me to express any concerns I had that the dealership couldn’t address. I did about a week ago but haven’t received a reply yet.

The dealership told me there is a nationwide hold on soul evs when they come in for the recall repair and they have 3 in the lot.

 

[buddhaauthor]

Cost was $1.52 for the session....only 8 cents per kWh pricing for DC charging. (R.I.P.)

R.I.P., indeed. Gosh, that's half what I pay for my electricity at home!

 

[mariano3113]

Kia Corporate reached out to me via email. Invited me to express any concerns I had that the dealership couldn’t address. I did about a week ago but haven’t received a reply yet.

The dealership told me there is a nationwide hold on soul evs when they come in for the recall repair and they have 3 in the lot.

Okay, so it looks as though it will be awhile before I get my Soul EV back.

Hoping I can change out the Sportage loaner for an EV. Have not enjoyed paying for Gas.

 

[JejuSoul]

Here's a poll from the US Kia Soul EV Facebook page.
The original battery pack in the 2014-2017 27 kWh Soul EV does not have E400 cells and is not covered by this recall.
So why is it the original batteries that are having problems with this recall?
Is this real or is it just the confusion of Facebook users.
Given this confusion in the data it might not be true that some 2018 cars are having problems with the recall.
But it is the first sign we have seen that this might be true.