ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:19 am

Apparently the Kia Soul EV 2018 gets 3 kW extra battery capacity.

http://www.goingelectric.de/forum/kia-soul-ev/kia-soul-ev-jetzt-noch-kaufen-t21466-40.html#p485590

A PDF can be downloaded with marketing information from Kia Germany in the above link (bad quality though)

Old battery:
- Capacity: 75 Ah (37,5*2)
- Weight battery: 277 kg
- Voltage: 360 V
- Number of cells: 192

New battery:
- Capacity: 80 Ah (40*2)
- Weight battery:: 290 kg
- Voltage: 375 V
- Number of cells: 200


Also low rolling resistance Michelin tires can be chosen. The price is 600 euro more than the old model.

SoulEV2016
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:57 pm

360v - 192 cells or 96S2P
375v - 200 cells or 100S2P

The question is ... the Chademo and OBC will be changed ?
Or the final voltage is more low than the 192 cells package ?

Usually, when the builder increase voltage, it's for :
- speed
- torque
- less current on cells (less heat at heavy duty driving)
- less voltage for final stage of charger
- can charge more quickly on whole range than a less voltage pack
Last edited by SoulEV2016 on Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

ZuinigeRijder
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:59 am

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:19 pm

This is now also picked up by pushevs: http://pushevs.com/2017/03/08/2018-kia-soul-ev-gets-30-kwh-battery/

Even if it’s in German and blurry, the document below shows us the battery capacity increase from 27 to 30 kWh (usable) and also the new NEDC range, which increases from 212 to 250 km. This battery capacity upgrade will also allow the 2018 Kia Soul EV to finally surpass the 100 miles (161 km) EPA range barrier. Remember that the current Kia Soul EV only has a 93 miles (150 km) EPA range.

It’s still not clear if the 2018 Kia Soul EV will finally move from CHAdeMO to Combined Charging System (CCS) in Europe and USA, where this is the official fast charging standard.

JejuSoul
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Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:00 pm

-
Am working though the details of this slowly, am editing this as I go.

The actual increase in usable battery energy capacity seems to be 11% (from 27kWh to 30kWh)

This is achieved by
Increasing the number of cells by 4% (from 196 to 200)
Improving the cell capacity by 7% (from 75Ah to 80Ah)

We don't know what the total energy capacity is but from these figures I don't think the have changed the ratio of unused capacity used as a buffer at the top. It seems reasonable to assume an 11% increase in total energy capacity. (from 30.5kWh to 33.8kWh)

The nominal voltage of the battery has increased because there are more cells in series. (from 360V = 3.75V * 96 to 375V = 3.75V * 100)
The nominal cell voltage is the same.

I don't know why the battery weight of the existing Soul EV uses a much heavier value than in the manual? Lots of media sites use the heavier weight 277kg for the existing model. It is shown on the kia specs here - http://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/soul-ev/specification/
All we can say is that the new pack might be 13kg heavier.

It lists an energy density of 205 Wh/kg. This cannot be for the pack. Perhaps it is for a single cell.

Available Discharge Power seems to be the same 90kW. I don't think we'll be getting any increase in speed.

The maximum charging rate for the OBC is 230V / 6.6kW / 27.5A
This is the same as the 2016 OBC version.

The maximum charging rate for DC fast charging is 62kW. same as before.

Below this line are the details for the existing Soul EV battery pack which I am using to compare the new specs.

--------------------------------------------

We know from the Service Manual that the existing battery has the following rated specs.
Image

The actual specs for the existing battery are detailed by AVTA.
Vehicle Specifications and Testing Results
Image

The existing Soul EV has a battery by SK Innovation.
It has 192 polymer pouch type cells, lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (NMC) cathode, .... Each 40Ah battery cell has energy density of 200 Wh/kg They are laid out in a series string of 96 sets of 2 parallel cells.
The rated capacity of the pack is 75Ah, whereas the measured total capacity is about 85Ah. Hence the rated capacity of each cell is 37.5Ah whereas actual is about 42Ah. The 2015 Soul EV battery pack is 30.5 kWh and weighs 202.8kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 150.4 Wh/kg
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

nibularr
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:39 am

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:27 pm

JejuSoul kind of related question.

i used a chademo station and charged at 355.1 V BUT 122.5 A average it was in this range from 25% to 70 %

I see a Leaf used the same chademo station but charged at 396 V but 78 A average at 46% (dont have other details to go on )

does the soul allow much more A vs leaf?

SoulEV2016
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:45 pm

No, it only use 2 levels voltage limit from 0 to 84% (390v target) and from 84 to 94% (394v target).
The Chademo charger is command by the car in voltage and current (depend of the limit of current available on the chademo charger).

Image

Nissan, BMW and Zoe don't handle good the high current.
Soul EV handle very good a high constant current.

cell and experience of factory is a point.
SK-Innovation is know as a power plant (stationnary and solar tank) experience in cells.

and so can handle more current because they know the needed for this (choice of material and vented closed storage).
Kia Soul EV 2016 Ultimate 27 kWh - Mountain hard driving (fast). Drain 1/3 of Battery after 32km. - Unlimited highway speed (153km/h at regulator).

JejuSoul
Posts: 1344
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Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:03 pm

The Soul EV uses SK Innovation batteries. 3 years ago they were much better than the rest. Better energy density, better at fast charging. But the rest seem to have caught up. The recent upgrades to all the other EVs were much greater percentage wise than the upgrade we are are discussing here.

The I oniq EV shares the faster charging capabilities of the Soul EV. But it uses much cheaper, lower energy density cells. Obviously SK has shared technology with LG because these two cars are both using the SK BMS. So I don't think it is the cell chemistry alone that allows faster charging. Another advantage that SK has is that it is the producer of the battery separators (look up SK LIBS). It might be this that has gone into the I oniq cells.

The German forum seems to suggest that the Soul EV will not be getting CCS this year. It will stay with Chademo. However Korea should be swapping to CCS this year. I will wait for the Jeju Forum next week to see what is really happening.

----------------------------------------
Edit: added this comment a few hours later.

There's also a good comment by Digitaldrucker on the German forum comparing charging on the Soul EV and the I oniq (on the same thread as the one above which found the battery upgrade info. - Re: Kia Soul EV jetzt noch kaufen?

Digitaldrucke wrote:The charging curve of the Soul EV is not similar to the I ONIQ Electric, but that of the I ONIQ Electric is similar to that of the Soul EV, because the I ONIQ is a further development of the Soul EV. The battery is slightly bigger, the car with its assistance systems even better ...

Of course, the loading curve is "even better", it can load up to a little more "higher" shifted SOC levels maximum - the absolutely identical max. Charging power in the peak, however, was already at the Soul EV end 2014 at 69 kW, even if the least know. At low SOC is already well over 60 kW (63-66 kW) loaded, the charging is basically no problem, at DC as at AC...
Last edited by JejuSoul on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

fsp
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:42 pm

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:28 pm

JejuSoul wrote:The Soul EV uses SK Innovation batteries. 3 years ago they were much better than the rest. Better energy density, better at fast charging. But the rest seem to have caught up. The recent upgrades to all the other EVs were much greater percentage wise than the upgrade we are are discussing here.

The I oniq EV shares the faster charging capabilities of the Soul EV. But it uses much cheaper, lower energy density cells. Obviously SK has shared technology with LG because these two cars are both using the SK BMS. So I don't think it is the cell chemistry alone that allows faster charging. Another advantage that SK has is that it is the producer of the battery separators (look up SK LIBS). It might be this that has gone into the I oniq cells.

The German forum seems to suggest that the Soul EV will not be getting CCS this year. It will stay with Chademo. However Korea should be swapping to CCS this year. I will wait for the Jeju Forum next week to see what is really happening.


Good info!

JejuSoul
Posts: 1344
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Location: Jeju
Contact: Website

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:01 pm

-
We now have confirmation of the increased battery size from the Jeju EV Expo.

Image

Image

Adds the additional data

5.0 km/kWh - energy economy (mixed) becomes 5.6 km/kWh
5.6 km/kWh - energy economy (urban area) becomes 6.0km /kWh
4.4 km/kWh - energy economy (highway) becomes 4.5 km/kWh

I am told that the higher nominal voltage makes driving and charging more efficient, because higher nominal voltage improves DC to AC efficiency.

Hence in Korea the driving distance on one charge has increased from 143km to 180km. (A 26% gain) This is in part due to a bigger battery (11%), part due to improved efficiency (12%), and maybe partly by removing the 80% charge limit (?). In the USA the EPA figure will become 112 miles.

From the earlier Austrian data from the blurry sheet above.
The actual increase in usable battery energy capacity seems to be 11% (from 27kWh to 30kWh)
This is achieved by
Increasing the number of cells by 4% (from 196 to 200)
Improving the cell capacity by 7% (from 75Ah to 80Ah)
The nominal voltage of the battery has increased because there are more cells in series. (from 360V = 3.75V * 96 to 375V = 3.75V * 100)

Edit: corrected numbers - Korean range of 2016 = 148km not 143km. EPA range of 2018 = 111miles not 112miles.
Last edited by JejuSoul on Tue May 22, 2018 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The codes for using Torque Pro can be found by clicking the link in the website icon under my user name on the left.

Synergy3214
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:27 am

Re: Newer Soul EVs and battery pack upgrades

Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:34 am

Nice, although just a 3kWh bump, looks like with the other efficiency improvements this will keep the Soul EV somewhat competitive :)

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