Questions. 1) I'm about to buy my second 2016 EV (my first was a three year lease with no issues) this used one has 37k miles for sale from the second owner. KIA replaced the entire battery under warranty at 23k miles in 2022 at the six year mark because the range was down to 26 miles. Work order says the new high voltage battery was a "37510 E4200R reman pack assy-battery." Range is now 120 miles and everything seems good. What does this mean in terms of battery warranty going forward for me as the third owner and with one previous replacement? 2) What should I have checked or what should I check myself before I buy it, in terms of battery or other 2016 EV issues? Am I making a wise move here, the price is very attractive. Many thanks!
Questions about purchasing a 2016 Soul EV.
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IanL
Well-known member
You could use SoulEV Spy with a Konnwei KW902 bluetooth dongle and a bluetooth equipped Android phone/tablet to read the battery SOH (State of Health). Hopefully, it will be in the high 90s. I would walk away if it is below 80. I understand that the E4200R pack uses the new (much better and long-lasting) E400 cells rather than the original cells.
There is a safety recall for batteries with E400 cells (see the thread on this board), so check whether it has been done.
There is a safety recall for batteries with E400 cells (see the thread on this board), so check whether it has been done.
As IanL wrote, there is a recall outstanding; if you're in the US, and per the recall notice, the car shouldn't be sold if the recall hasn't been actioned.
I will go further and say that you should maybe reconsider the purchase, as the general sense is Kia hasn't got their arms around the problem and that the recall 'fix' maybe causing issues with cars that seemed to be working fine before the battery harness replacement and software 'upgrade'.
We had a replacement pack - with E400 cells - in our '17 last summer; the car is subject to the recall and I am not looking forward to the 'process', and possible outcome.
raskal
Member
a 2016 has 120 MILES of range?
I thought the best range was 93?
I thought the best range was 93?
The replacement E4200 battery seems to have added the extra range and it's not subject to recall that I'm aware of.
Again, it already has a replacement E4200R battery. It's worked fine for 14k miles and nearly two years. So does a E400 recall even matter to me? Warm climate, USA.
IanL
Well-known member
A 2016 with a replacement battery with E400 cells gets a useful 6% increase in capacity. The EPA range is not necessarily reflected in the value shown on the GOM. If the BMS has recently been reset, it will be close to the default value. You can place little reliance in the GOM unless you have done a fair mileage, such that it has learned your normal usage AND shows good agreement with what you are actually achieving.
I keep records, and my usage is fairly uniform. My GOM tends to be somewhat pessimistic in Summer (perhaps 10% on average), and similarly optimistic in Winter. Not unexpected.
I keep records, and my usage is fairly uniform. My GOM tends to be somewhat pessimistic in Summer (perhaps 10% on average), and similarly optimistic in Winter. Not unexpected.
IanL
Well-known member
The recall is to apply an update to the BMS software, to detect an abnormality in cells which can give rise to a battery fire. So it should matter to you, perhaps more so in a warm climate.
This may or may not be true. It is not helpful to post such assumptions.
A re-manufactured battery is unlikely to be the same as one with all new cells.
What is always true is that a replacement battery has more capacity than 70% of the old battery it replaced when that battery was new.
Most people with re-manufactured battery packs report that the new pack has similar capacity to the original pack when new.
Some people who got a new battery pack with with all new cells report a new capacity greater than a 6% increase.
I am one of these and I have posted this fact over and over again.
Arguing about theoretical capacity is not helpful. The important thing to do when buying a second hand EV is to drive it
Just to clarify the 'car shouldn't be sold' part of my response - I now understand that applies only to Kia dealers and isn't an NHTSA rule.
Well, Kia will / should have a record that the original pack has been replaced with an E400 (they do for ours, hence we're subject to the recall), it's up to you to decide if the recall matters to you, or not.
What might the consequences be if you purchase the vehicle, ignore the recall and it catches fire?
My 2016 Kia Soul EV had battery replaced in 2022 and now 2 years later still get 125 in summer and 105 in coldest part of winter. I have 72,000 miles on it. I am selling it now and hope to get $6,000- $7,000 for it. The battery can be replaced unlimited times IF it goes low in 8 years. Even if replaced once. So mine will not get a new battery again but I expect it to keep its current range for at least 3-4 years.
IanL
Well-known member
So updating my situation, still trying to decide. I am considering a 2016 with 37k miles, replacement 4200R battery 24 months ago that has worked fine for 14k miles since and the carfax shows an open recall for the BMS which others are claiming will compromise the battery efficiency and lead to the turtle mode? I could buy it and ignore the recall or do the recall and risk the issue? Are those my options? Also confirming that the 10 year battery warranty applies to all subsequent owners, correct?
IanL
Well-known member
....others are claiming may ...., not will. And I have the impression that the issue is a detection of a potentially hazardous battery, thus requiring replacement, not a false alarm. So I would say that "buy and ignore" is not a sensible option. Why not tell the seller you'll buy it after the recall has been performed, and you've had an opportunity to see that the issue does not arise? That way you have no risk.
The recall installs an upgraded BMS system that over time, can detect "bad cells" in the battery that they've found can lead to serious fires. So after the recall there is a chance at some random point in the future that the new BMS will detect this problem in your battery, THUS SAVING YOU FROM A FIRE, and making you eligible for a new battery. If that sounds too inconvenient to deal with, then so be it.
Thanks for the input. If the seller gets the recall done and it's fine for a few days while I buy it but then acts up later, it really won't have confirmed it's working correctly for more than a few days.
IanL
Well-known member
If that is a deal-breaker for you, it would seem you should not consider buying any KIA SoulEV with E400 cells.
I'm buying it. The used EV credit was too much to pass up! You can get the credit from a private party sale with KeySavvy. There's also no limit to the number of new batteries you can get if it should crap out later down the road and this vehicle didn't go into service until 2017 so I am also getting three more years of battery protection. Finally, even if the worse case happens I have two other vehicles so I can let it sit while KIA fixes it and won't be in a panic to get it back.
Be wary. I write this on hour 6 of my current visit to a Kia dealer. Kia had my Soul EV+ for 7 months, replacing gearbox and (supposedly) the BMS update and battery harness. After 2 weeks, complete battery failure, as described in the safety recall. Back to Kia this morning via tow. Now they are refusing a loaner until engineers in Korea have reviewed the diagnostics. Don't be mislead by the supposed 120 range; it's not real.
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