Charging Fault error.

[nibularr]

looks like false alarm for now. was told i only needed my charging port replaced. i have the car back.

will keep a close eye on it...


Scratch that... as of 10pm tonight charging cuts out after a few seconds with charger errors happening again.

 

[ottsoul]

I got the same charger error, my car car stopped charging.....tried both Level 1 and Level 2 charging but no luck.

I'm in Ottawa with the base model Soul EV, had the car for only 2 months with 2875km on it, wasn't happy to see the charging error.

Had the car towed to the dealership, they kept it for 2 weeks and replaced the charging unit.

It's charging fine now......I hope this unit last more than 2 months

 

[nibularr]

word is Kia canada wants to replace my charging port before considering the OBC
soo im on rental car for a few weeks till new Port gets shipped in from Korea

hoping this doesn't just lead to OBC replacement after port replacement.

paying for gas and No HOV stinks 3 days in..

 

[nibularr]

picked my car back up
had the charging port replaced and was told at time of pickup the OBC was replaced as well

here is the new sticker on the new unit
looks like maybe a new supplier company?

can you translate JejuSoul ?

also was told there was aprox 40 car waitlist for OBC replacements...

 

[JejuSoul]

....also was told there was aprox 40 car waitlist for OBC replacements...

Wow, very hard to make sense of this issue. Why is it so prevalent in Canada? Have they managed to fix it with a new version yet? Why did they change your charging port? No one else had mentioned problems with the charging port.

대우전자부 is DAEWOO ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS. Co. Ltd. The same company as before.
Their website with our OBC is here - http://www.dwecc.com/sub/sub02/wpage_01.html
They also make the PTC Positive Temp Coefficient Heater. Am looking up what that is now.
The PTC is part of the HVAC system - have opened a new thread about that - Heating and Cooling the Cabin - The HVAC System

 

[jamessong007]

Just had my first charging error.
I charge L2 at work daily and today I went back to my car to find it had not charged. Tried charging it multiple times at L2 but each time the first blue light blinked for a minute before all three lights blinked twice and stop. The charger error message reads waiting for communication from car. Tried L1 with the charger that came with the car but immediately the fault light on the charger unit lit up. I'm currently waiting for a tow to the dealership.

Will update when new info is available.

I haven't had a single complaint and the only time I went to the dealership after leasing the car was for the steering recall.

Kia Soul EV 2015 30,000+ miles.

 

[JejuSoul]

Hi James, thanks for posting the info. It does sound like you have the OBC error. Let's hope the replacement is quick.
The lights blinking has been mentioned before but you are the first to report 'error message reads waiting for communication from car'.
Can you take a photo of that.
Also where are you from, most but not all of the reports on this thread are from Canada.

 

[wrickcook]

He used miles, so must be US.

 

[jamessong007]

To Jeju,
I didn't take a picture of the charger sorry.
Here is another diagnostic note. The car charged by Chademo without a problem at the Kia dealership. I hope that the issue is resolved properly.
Also I am in Orange County California USA.
James

 

[notfred]

Chademo is direct to the battery and doesn't go through the charger, only L1 and L2 use the charger. You could still have a very dead charger in your car.

 

[jamessong007]

Chademo is direct to the battery and doesn't go through the charger, only L1 and L2 use the charger. You could still have a very dead charger in your car.

Update
Dealership fixed the issue in one day. Replaced faulty on board charger assembly (OBC). All work and parts under warranty.
Notfred hit it on the nose.

 

[2016Electric]

The fact that so many OBCs continue to fail is certainly concerning.

Do we have this narrowed down to a particular version of the OBC yet? Do we know if the replacement OBC (newer version?) permanently resolves the issue?

In fact, this community (here online) represents a very small sample group of enthusiastic owners. It is quite probable that many more of these OBC units are failing, and we simply don't hear about it.

If the problem is in fact widespread:
- Given that it can strand a vehicle
- If there is a newer version where the failure mode has been resolved
I think Kia should be proactive and replace the faulty version as a recall. One of these failing outside of warranty would be quite costly.


I've read a few posts about geographic locations of failure (more in some places than in others). Heat wouldn't seem to be an issue, as many have failed in cold climates. I wonder what part in particular is failing inside these units? Have fewer units failed in Europe vs. NA or Korea?

Here in NA (or at least in Ontario, Canada), electric power is supplied at 60hz, and we primarily use 2 voltages in residences , (but in fact we use 3 if you include 3-phase supplied transformers). In MOST residential settings, customers are delivered with single phase AC - L1 at "120" volts, but this can range from a low of 110 to a high of 128~ volts or so, depending on system load and transformer setup. For L2, most residences also have split-phase "240 volt" service available, derived from single phase AC. This is usually provided via a centre-tapped transformer, where the centre tap is neutral, and the two remaining taps offer "120" volts each (against the neutral) but at opposite phases (thus by omitting the neutral and connecting between the two lives, you get a potential of "240" volts, RMS). I place quotes around the "240", as depending on line length, system load, and transformer setup, I've seen anything from 239 volts to 247 volts.

The third commonly seen setup is delivers 60 hz AC via a 208Y/120 type transformer, which is supplied with 3-phase power from the utility, but single phase to the point of use. This is accomplished via a centre tapped neutral, plus any 2 lives (out of the three) to supply 120 volts RMS against the neutral, or 208 volts RMS live-to-live. This is the setup that often supplies public EVSEs in parking lots or stores, and in some condos (as is the case in mine). There is no problem with using 208 volts RMS (versus 240 or so), just that at 30amps max, you only get around 6.2 kw to the OBC, versus 7.2 kw on 240v.

In many places in Europe, it is my understanding that homes are supplied with 220 - 230 volts RMS at 50hz, while Korea could be 110/220 at 60hz. I'm wondering if there is a correlation between higher failures on the higher split phase voltages used for L2 in North America (which could be in the high 240-247 volt range), versus the 208, 220, or 230 volt supplied units in commercial settings in NA, or residences in Europe?

 

[SoulEV2016]

the only thing to check is :

- it's a power failure (mosfet, condensator) ?
- it's a command failure (EVSE 12v square signal because earth potential is used as GND, so the EVSE detector of charger is DEAD) ?

I always think it's the 2nd case ... and that why i use a personal EVSE card (i control the 12v transformer).



project : https://github.com/kortas87/simple-evse/wiki

commercial solution (?!? ....... i don't want this !!!)

 

[2016Electric]

the only thing to check is :

- it's a power failure (mosfet, condensator) ?
- it's a command failure (EVSE 12v square signal because earth potential is used as GND, so the EVSE detector of charger is DEAD) ?

I always think it's the 2nd case ... and that why i use a personal EVSE card (i control the 12v transformer).

I too use a non-commercial EVSE (I use the OpenEVSE unit), and thus far, have had no problems. So maybe we could add another dimension to this: What particular EVSE unit is used to regularly charge your vehicle, or what was used at or shortly before the time of failure? Perhaps there is a commonality on the units used where OBCs fail...

That said, I would be surprised if the EVSE unit was causing damage to the OBC. The OBC should be robust enough to withstand improperly functioning EVSE, through some sort of overload or fault protection circuitry, given the high cost of replacement, and inconvenience to the vehicle owner. Perhaps the diode (to modify EVSE square wave) onboard the vehicle is being fried somehow? That part could be sensitive to surges or excessive voltage spikes on the 12v EVSE output line... where is that diode located? In the female end of the J1772, or the OBC?

Which brings me back to my first point: What exactly is failing on the OBC?

 

[JejuSoul]

The fact that so many OBCs continue to fail is certainly concerning.

I agree. My car hasn't had a problem yet. The worry is that the OBC dies out of warranty.

Do we have this narrowed down to a particular version of the OBC yet? Do we know if the replacement OBC (newer version?) permanently resolves the issue?

No. That nibularr had the failure suggests the newer version also fails. It seems as if Kia do not understand the problem yet. If the problem could be fixed by a software update it would be far less costly, stressful and time consuming. The new version of the OBC does have new software but I don't know if they made any hardware changes. Is it likely that the hardware actually breaks and needs to be replaced?

In fact, this community (here online) represents a very small sample group of enthusiastic owners. It is quite probable that many more of these OBC units are failing, and we simply don't hear about it.

From Facebook it was reported that the error rate was about 6% in Norway and Canada. Norway is important because there are far more Soul EV's there than anywhere else. Only 6 of the 492 people on this forum have reported this error. 4 in Canada, 2 in US. This compares with 14 errors on the much smaller Quebec forum. We know the fault is much more common than this simply by people asking the Kia technician at their local Kia center. That is how I know this occurs in Korea. Similarly we have heard it is common in Vancouver BC, has occurred a few times in the Bay Area but never in Washington State.That the latest car jamessong007 was fixed on the same day suggest Kia's technicians know exactly what to do and already have the part in stock. A year ago this problem could take weeks to fix as they needed to order the part.

What particular EVSE unit is used to regularly charge your vehicle

That question is asked by the Quebec group who are collecting a list of these errors. see Possible problème de batterie ou d'électronique ou de borne (???)

Isabelle :                              2015, Base, Borne Schneider,    pas de nouvelle d'Isabelle
CarlP     :                             2015, Luxe,  Borne EVduty 30a, (convertisseur)
Baoutch :                             2015, Luxe,  Borne EVduty 30a, (convertisseur)
Guillaume Godbout :              2015, Luxe,  Bosch 30a,           (chargeur embarqué)
Daniel Poirier :                      2016                                        (chargeur embarqué)
Roch Lanthier:                      2015, Base, Bosch 30a,            (chargeur embarqué)
Mélanie Chicoine Ledoux:      2015, Luxe, Borne EVduty,        (chargeur embarqué)
Sylvio Perreault:                   2015,Luxe,   ???
Jocelyn Paradis                    2016,Luxe +, Borne Bosch 30a
Pierre-Étienne                       2016,Luxe +, Borne EVduty,       (diagnostic à venir)
Soul EV de EEKO                 2015,Luxe,                                (chargeur embarqué)
CGIROUX                            2016,Luxe, Borne Bosch 30a      (EPCU)
Antoine                                 2016,Base, Borne Bosch 30a     (pièce à confirmer)
PhilDuf

The most common charger in Canada seems to be a Bosch 30A. I think that is the one people get subsidies for. But this problem happens elsewhere on a variety of different chargers.

 

[2016Electric]

The fact that so many OBCs continue to fail is certainly concerning.

I agree. My car hasn't had a problem yet. The worry is that the OBC dies out of warranty.

Do we have this narrowed down to a particular version of the OBC yet? Do we know if the replacement OBC (newer version?) permanently resolves the issue?

No. That nibularr had the failure suggests the newer version also fails. It seems as if Kia do not understand the problem yet. If the problem could be fixed by a software update it would be far less costly, stressful and time consuming. The new version of the OBC does have new software but I don't know if they made any hardware changes. Is it likely that the hardware actually breaks and needs to be replaced?

In fact, this community (here online) represents a very small sample group of enthusiastic owners. It is quite probable that many more of these OBC units are failing, and we simply don't hear about it.

From Facebook it was reported that the error rate was about 6% in Norway and Canada. Norway is important because there are far more Soul EV's there than anywhere else. Only 6 of the 492 people on this forum have reported this error. 4 in Canada, 2 in US. This compares with 14 errors on the much smaller Quebec forum. We know the fault is much more common than this simply by people asking the Kia technician at their local Kia center. That is how I know this occurs in Korea. Similarly we have heard it is common in Vancouver BC, has occurred a few times in the Bay Area but never in Washington State.That the latest car jamessong007 was fixed on the same day suggest Kia's technicians know exactly what to do and already have the part in stock. A year ago this problem could take weeks to fix as they needed to order the part.

What particular EVSE unit is used to regularly charge your vehicle

That question is asked by the Quebec group who are collecting a list of these errors. see Possible problème de batterie ou d'électronique ou de borne (???)

Isabelle :                              2015, Base, Borne Schneider,    pas de nouvelle d'Isabelle
CarlP     :                             2015, Luxe,  Borne EVduty 30a, (convertisseur)
Baoutch :                             2015, Luxe,  Borne EVduty 30a, (convertisseur)
Guillaume Godbout :              2015, Luxe,  Bosch 30a,           (chargeur embarqué)
Daniel Poirier :                      2016                                        (chargeur embarqué)
Roch Lanthier:                      2015, Base, Bosch 30a,            (chargeur embarqué)
Mélanie Chicoine Ledoux:      2015, Luxe, Borne EVduty,        (chargeur embarqué)
Sylvio Perreault:                   2015,Luxe,   ???
Jocelyn Paradis                    2016,Luxe +, Borne Bosch 30a
Pierre-Étienne                       2016,Luxe +, Borne EVduty,       (diagnostic à venir)
Soul EV de EEKO                 2015,Luxe,                                (chargeur embarqué)
CGIROUX                            2016,Luxe, Borne Bosch 30a      (EPCU)
Antoine                                 2016,Base, Borne Bosch 30a     (pièce à confirmer)
PhilDuf

The most common charger in Canada seems to be a Bosch 30A. I think that is the one people get subsidies for. But this problem happens elsewhere on a variety of different chargers.

Interesting. I noticed on one of the OBC labels (on a pic earlier in this thread) that the input voltage of the OBC is rated at 110-240 VAC. As I mentioned, I know for certain that here we experience voltages (on split phase service) exceeding 240 VAC (RMS). I wonder if it may be as simple as the unit not built robust enough to handle overvoltage conditions?

Then again, I beleive Norway uses a lower line voltage (230VAC at 50hz per Wikipedia) and if so, that might rule this out (depending on their voltage stability). In that case, it could just be poor QC or build standards overall on the OBC, which is far more disappointing. Don't want to jump to conclusions though.

 

[tractioninc]

I don't have any quantitative data to add, but my Soul EV does not work with my father's Juicebox L2 EVSE. He charges his Nissan Leaf with it nightly, but attempting to charge my car with it is unpredictable. After connecting it to my Soul:

- The car will stop charging after an inconsistent period of time; sometimes an hour or more, lately as little as 5 minutes, with no error is displayed in/on the car.
- The car will stop charging after a few minutes and all three charge lights will begin blinking.
- The car will simply not recognize the EVSE at all and will not charge.

I have not had these symptoms when connecting my Soul EV to commercial L2 chargers, but I don't do that often enough or for long enough for a reliable conclusion.

 

[JejuSoul]

... it could just be poor QC or build standards overall on the OBC, which is far more disappointing. Don't want to jump to conclusions though.

It is an obvious conclusion to jump to when you see the name Daewoo on the sticker. But if it was something so obvious there would be no geographic component to the failures. and given how expensive this error is to fix they would have improved the quality control asap. I don't think the answer is so easy.

 

[SoulEV2016]

That said, I would be surprised if the EVSE unit was causing damage to the OBC. The OBC should be robust enough to withstand improperly functioning EVSE, through some sort of overload or fault protection circuitry, given the high cost of replacement, and inconvenience to the vehicle owner.

me ... no.

mixing earth connector with GND is a complet failure in electronic design.
AC Power regime can not be compared to DC electronic command.

why ?
because Neutral is make with Earth design ...

At transformer in your street :

But it's more clear like that (again, from your transformer IN the street) :

Hint : Resistor "R NGR" is this ...

 

[2016Electric]

... it could just be poor QC or build standards overall on the OBC, which is far more disappointing. Don't want to jump to conclusions though.

It is an obvious conclusion to jump to when you see the name Daewoo on the sticker. But if it was something so obvious there would be no geographic component to the failures. and given how expensive this error is to fix they would have improved the quality control asap. I don't think the answer is so easy.

That's what I was getting at with regard to the input voltage range (110-240). Our region (Ontario/Quebec/BC Canada) uses split phase AC to derive "240" volts from a L1/L2/N centre-tapped transformer system. It is not at all unusual to see live-to-live voltages exceed 240 volts. Hence, if the units are easily damaged by "overvoltage" (greater than 240), say perhaps because the components were only marginally capable of withstanding continuous 240VAC@30A, then regularly applying anything that exceeded that value could push the components over the edge (so to speak). I'd heard that a software update limited the OBC to somewhere around 28A -is that true? If so, perhaps that may have been an attempt to derate the equipment, to reduce strain.??