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sikke said:
Hi folks,

2105:
7EC 10 2C 61 05 FF FF FF FF
7EC 21 00 00 00 00 00 06 07
7EC 22 08 00 00 00 00 20 DC
7EC 23 23 28 00 01 55 07 07
7EC 24 00 0A 1D 00 41 04 8E
7EC 25 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
7EC 26 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Max Deterioration 1.00 %
Min Deterioration 6.50 %

According to the table 00 0A is indeed 1% and 00 41 is 6.5%
Did you type the values over or was it a copy/paste?

For me the deterioration is changing, it is now on the lowest value measured for more than two weeks.
Max Deterioration has been changed from 11.1% 13.4% 10.2% into 10%
Min Deterioration has been changed from 9.6% 11.1% 8.2% into 8.4%
 
JeroenE said:
JejuSoul said:
Error 2/ while checking the Chademo connection. After charging to 80% was complete I disconnected the plug from the car. and closed the cover. But the car refused to drive because it told me the cord was still connected. This error just went away after I turned off the car, and checked that the front cover was properly closed (It was). This error has not reappeared.
I have had this too (even when I didn't had a dongle).

I can recreate this very easy. Start the quick charging. Then turn the car on (so you can run the heater or AC). Then stop the quick charging. You'll get the error that a cord is connected.

You can prevent this error by either not turning on the car after you started charging or turn the car off before you stop the charging and disconnect the plug.

I can confirm this.
If you turn on the ignition (press the Start button twice) during charging and do not turn of befor (press it once more) finishing you will have this error message.
By only turn on the radio you will not have it and you can start the car as usually.
 
JejuSoul said:
Hi Sikke, welcome to the forum.
Hope you are enjoying your new car.
There is one oddity in the data you posted.
Max Deterioration 1.00 %, Min Deterioration 6.50 %
The maximum value has always been higher than the minimum in readings seen by users on this thread.
Am assuming this is just a glitch in the connection to the dongle.
Can you try again and see if this corrects. My guess is that your Min Deterioration is really zero.
What dongle are you using. I use the Konnwei KW902. It does have occasional glitches - see my posts above. But it is cheap and it does work.
Also how long have you had the car?


Thanks JejuSoul,
I did saw that the max/min deterioration values was somewhat mixed around so i checked the values twice, i do agree with you that the dongle maybe had a glitch. I will try to take a another reading later.
I'm using a Scanlink MX adapter, but i'm a novice regarding the use of it and OBD in general.

I have had the car since december 2015, and it is a 2016 model. The car is one of the best i ever had regarding how fast it heats up the cabin and comfort when the temperature is around -15 to -26°C for a couple of weeks i january :)

ZuinigeRijder said:
According to the table 00 0A is indeed 1% and 00 41 is 6.5%
Did you type the values over or was it a copy/paste?

For me the deterioration is changing, it is now on the lowest value measured for more than two weeks.
Max Deterioration has been changed from 11.1% 13.4% 10.2% into 10%
Min Deterioration has been changed from 9.6% 11.1% 8.2% into 8.4%

Hi ZuinigeRijder,
I typed the values and checked them twice, as i mentioned above i will do a new reading.
 
sikke said:
The car is one of the best i ever had regarding how fast it heats up the cabin and comfort when the temperature is around -15 to -26°C for a couple of weeks i january :)
That's cold! Lowest my car has ever got was -6°C. The battery heater has never come on. In your reading above the battery heater says 7°C when the outside temp is -3°C. Do you know how cold it has to get before that heater comes on automatically. (On my car the battery heater value is always zero, which means it is off. The display in Torque shows 0°C)
 
JejuSoul said:
Do you know how cold it has to get before that heater comes on automatically.

I tried finding this in the service manual but couldn't find the exact temperature. I'm reasonably certain that the LEAF's battery heater comes on at -20 degrees; it's probably similar for the Soul EV.
 
Have made a new reading:
2101:
7EC 10 3D 61 01 FF FF FF FF
7EA 10 0E 61 01 F0 00 00 00
7EA 21 0E 06 07 03 00 00 00
7EC 21 93 1B 01 23 28 03 00
7EC 22 00 0E DB 07 05 07 06
7EA 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
7EC 23 06 05 05 00 08 C6 03
7EC 24 C5 58 00 00 81 00 00
7EC 25 5F 82 00 00 61 48 00
7EC 26 00 24 01 00 00 23 53
7EC 27 00 20 03 22 45 01 80
7EC 28 00 00 00 00 03 E8 00

2105:
7EA 03 7F 21 12 00 00 00 00
7EC 10 2C 61 05 FF FF FF FF
7EC 21 00 00 00 00 00 06 06
7EC 22 07 00 00 00 00 1B 01
7EC 23 23 28 00 01 50 06 06
7EC 24 00 0A 1D 00 41 04 9A
7EC 25 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
7EC 26 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Values is still 1% Max Deterioration and Min Deterioration is 6.5%, strange
 
sikke said:
Values is still 1% Max Deterioration and Min Deterioration is 6.5%, strange
Yes, that is strange! Can you post again in a month or two when the values change.
Over the last three months for my car the values for deterioration have changed 6 times.
Max is always higher than min.

There has been no change to the values for the last 2 months. Is this a winter effect?
Are other people seeing changes in the cold?

Also after using a Chademo tonight I saw the battery temps. 1 to 7 at 30C. Number 8 at 15C.
We have already commented on the special nature of battery module 8. It is closest to the outside air inlet.
So I thought about the deterioration cell numbers.
On my car the min value is almost always cell number 1. The max value is almost always cell number 2.
Is this significant? has anyone else seen this pattern?
 
JejuSoul said:
sikke said:
Values is still 1% Max Deterioration and Min Deterioration is 6.5%, strange
Yes, that is strange! Can you post again in a month or two when the values change.
Of Course i will, have you tried to decode my readings in case i messed it up.
 
JejuSoul said:
There has been no change to the values for the last 2 months. Is this a winter effect?
Are other people seeing changes in the cold?
My last change was in dec 23, and since then I have made 4000km with no change in these numbers. January was pretty cold so a "winter effect" is an interesting theory. (We had lots of days with -15 -25C and the esimated range was down to around 115km at 100% SOC, and it seemed to be really accurate). I had expected the deterioration values to change during this period, but they did not.
JejuSoul said:
Also after using a Chademo tonight I saw the battery temps. 1 to 7 at 30C. Number 8 at 15C.
We have already commented on the special nature of battery module 8. It is closest to the outside air inlet.
So I thought about the deterioration cell numbers.
On my car the min value is almost always cell number 1. The max value is almost always cell number 2.
Is this significant? has anyone else seen this pattern?
I see the same tendency regarding the temperature of module 8. Normally it is about 2C above the rest, but during quickcharge #8 is significantly cooler than the others.

My deterioration history so far:
Code:
                       Max    Cell     Min      Cell
First time logged      9.3%   0x20     8.3%    0x01
2015-11-05  18780km    9.8%   0x02     8.4%    0x08
2015-11-19  19751km   10.3%   0x18     9.2%    0x01
2015-12-23  22610km   11.2%   0x03    10.2%    0x08
2016-02-18  26667km   11.2%   0x03    10.2%    0x08 (Today, no change)
So yes, low cell numbers dominate..
 
I just had a big jump in deterioration numbers. So forget the less deterioration in winter idea.
It moves me from slightly better than average to slightly worse.
Code:
Date			      km		  Max   Cell   Min	Cell
24 October 2015    7,500.0	 2.5	11	 0.0	1
06 November 2015	7,750.0	 3.5	2	  0.1	83
06 December 2015	9,752.0	 4.5	2	  4.4	25
11 December 2015	10,033.0	6.0	4	  3.1	1
23 December 2015	10,794.0	6.5	2	  2.4	1
27 December 2015	10,997.0	6.5	2	  2.8	1
23 February 2016   13,251.0	7.5	4	  6.9	1
Still mostly low cell numbers
 
I have just gotten an ELM-327 OBD-II to USB reader. I am mainly interested in the battery-deterioration data and will post them if anyone could be so helpful to tell me how I can get the data. Any sugestions to which program I should use, and what commands to run. I run windows 7.

I installed Putty (a terminal-program) but was not able to make it work.

Jejusoul: In Norway, we have a 7 year/150.000km warranty on the batteries. With the deterioriation rate you are experiencing, and lets say the deterioration rate is linear, then I can't see how the battery is able to have 70% capacity left after 150.000km.

I am having my car on service this first friday, and will ask if they can take a readout on the deterioration values. It would be fun to see if they say the same numbers as my findings will show.
 
Birkeland said:
I have just gotten an ELM-327 OBD-II to USB reader. I am mainly interested in the battery-deterioration data and will post them if anyone could be so helpful to tell me how I can get the data. Any sugestions to which program I should use, and what commands to run.

I installed Putty (a terminal-program) but was not able to make it work.

Jejusoul: In Norway, we have a 7 year/150.000km warranty on the batteries. With the deterioriation rate you are experiencing, and lets say the deterioration rate is linear, then I can't see how the battery is able to have 70% capacity left after 150.000km.

I am having my car on service this first friday, and will ask if they can take a readout on the deterioration values. It would be fun to see if they say the same numbers as my findings will show.

I used the free Android App "alOBD terminal", but I have a bluetooth dongle, see this post:

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=135&p=3081#p3081 (Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:42 pm)

And you can paste the values in the spreadsheet in this post:
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=135&p=3085#p3085 (Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:51 am)
 
ZuinigeRijder said:
Birkeland said:
I have just gotten an ELM-327 OBD-II to USB reader. I am mainly interested in the battery-deterioration data and will post them if anyone could be so helpful to tell me how I can get the data. Any sugestions to which program I should use, and what commands to run.

I installed Putty (a terminal-program) but was not able to make it work.

Jejusoul: In Norway, we have a 7 year/150.000km warranty on the batteries. With the deterioriation rate you are experiencing, and lets say the deterioration rate is linear, then I can't see how the battery is able to have 70% capacity left after 150.000km.

I am having my car on service this first friday, and will ask if they can take a readout on the deterioration values. It would be fun to see if they say the same numbers as my findings will show.

I used the free Android App "alOBD terminal", but I have a bluetooth dongle, see this post:

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=135&p=3081#p3081 (Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:42 pm)

And you can paste the values in the spreadsheet in this post:
http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=135&p=3085#p3085 (Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:51 am)

Thats the problem. I have an ELM 327 with USB which I can only connect to my computer running Windows 7. If I had gotten an ELM with bluetooth, I would be able to connect it to my Android phone. But unfortuenately, that's not possible with the one I have with USB cord.
 
Thought I'd share my way of dealing with this.. Old school but it works.
I am using an embedded PC (Win XP / Pentium-m, modern people would probably use RaspPi or similar, but a laptop is fine) as a "real-time" logger which pulls ~15 samples/min and stores the data in raw text files. Additionally the program saves a log file with selected values decoded. Most of the data will never be of any use, but as long as we don't know for sure what's happening in there, I always have the possibility to backtrace interesting findings.
The last 4 months I haven't had too much time for this project, but the logger has collected basically all charging and driving during this time... :mrgreen:

I use a KW901 bluetooth adapter and a home-cooked Python program, simply connecting through a COM-port provided by the BT drivers. I guess a USB adapter would also provide a COM-port, so the software should work the same as long as it's ELM327 compatible.

The system is evolving, but as of now the following stuff gets recorded in the raw files:
Code:
BMS: 7EC 2101 - 2105
VMC: 7EA 2100 - 2102
OBC: 79C 2102
LDC: 7CD 2101
What's missing is the odometer, the outdoor temperature and the GPS coordinates..

One useful thing with the raw file is to open it in Notepad, adjust the window height and scroll through it using PgUp/PgDn. It's like fast-forward a movie and you can actually observe one specific cell's behaviour during a trip or a charging session. Nerdish, I know.. :geek:
 
Birkeland said:
Thats the problem. I have an ELM 327 with USB which I can only connect to my computer running Windows 7. If I had gotten an ELM with bluetooth, I would be able to connect it to my Android phone. But unfortuenately, that's not possible with the one I have with USB cord.

Did you have the correct drivers for windows 7 installed, so you can connect to the correct com port via a terminal program like putty or hyperterminal?

Drivers for windows 7 can be found here:

https://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/USBtoUARTBridgeVCPDrivers.aspx

I do not have experience with using a terminal program via windows 7 and elm327.
 
Is it certain that the data regarding degradation are being interpreted correctly?

I've got nearly 21,500 Southern California (warm-ish ZIP 90248) miles on my Soul and just did a 94.4 mile continuous run starting with a 100% charge. The car reported 4.1 mi/kWh and there was 11% remaining when I completed the trip.

Extrapolating this implies that I have a remaining pack capacity of 25.87 usable kWh. This compares with the InsideEVs test done on my car with 500 miles on the odometer which implied a 27.39 kWh usable capacity.

If this is roughly accurate then I've only lost 5.56% of usable capacity in ~21,000 miles. It makes me question the interpretation from the CAN bus info that some of these packs are losing a startling amount of capacity in a short period of time.
 
mtndrew1 said:
Is it certain that the data regarding degradation are being interpreted correctly?
We are not sure of the data. It is mostly consistent for all the cars tested, which represents multiple different climates. We don't know if the scale is correct. And we don't know if this will continue in a linear fashion.

What we do see is that for cars that have driven about 20,000km the data says 10% deterioration, but the actual range has not dropped at all. This suggests the data is using the total capacity, not usable. The loss of the buffer must cease after about 10%. (Probably well before.)
mtndrew1 said:
I've only lost 5.56% of usable capacity in ~21,000 miles
This is entirely consistent with the OBD data we are getting. ~21,000 miles = ~34,000km. We'd expect ~15% deterioration. That is 10% from the buffer and 5% from usable.

Birkeland said:
... lets say the deterioration rate is linear, then I can't see how the battery is able to have 70% capacity left after 150.000km.
I agree. Presumably the deterioration rate will not be linear. Kia seems confident in its guarantee. Yet what we are seeing is that nearly 100% of the cars will deteriorate faster. Hence the doubt in our numbers. It will be useful to see how the deterioration measured at a service center matches our own data.

What is also striking in our numbers is that as yet there is no climate difference. Cars in Norway and Sweden are behaving the same as cars in Holland and Germany which are the same as cars in California and Korea.
 
ZuinigeRijder said:
Birkeland said:
Thats the problem. I have an ELM 327 with USB which I can only connect to my computer running Windows 7. If I had gotten an ELM with bluetooth, I would be able to connect it to my Android phone. But unfortuenately, that's not possible with the one I have with USB cord.

Did you have the correct drivers for windows 7 installed, so you can connect to the correct com port via a terminal program like putty or hyperterminal?

Drivers for windows 7 can be found here:

https://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/USBtoUARTBridgeVCPDrivers.aspx

I do not have experience with using a terminal program via windows 7 and elm327.

Yes, I have the latest drivers and my computer recognizes the OBD unit. I can also use putty but I dont know which commands to send to the vehicle.

I have however ordered a bluetooth OBD-reader now, so I can use my android phone. Seems easier.
 
Birkeland said:
ZuinigeRijder said:
Birkeland said:
Thats the problem. I have an ELM 327 with USB which I can only connect to my computer running Windows 7. If I had gotten an ELM with bluetooth, I would be able to connect it to my Android phone. But unfortuenately, that's not possible with the one I have with USB cord.

Did you have the correct drivers for windows 7 installed, so you can connect to the correct com port via a terminal program like putty or hyperterminal?

Drivers for windows 7 can be found here:

https://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/USBtoUARTBridgeVCPDrivers.aspx

I do not have experience with using a terminal program via windows 7 and elm327.

Yes, I have the latest drivers and my computer recognizes the OBD unit. I can also use putty but I dont know which commands to send to the vehicle.

I have however ordered a bluetooth OBD-reader now, so I can use my android phone. Seems easier.

Ok, the elm327 commands were in this link.

Code:
2 > atz
atzELM327 v1.5
3 > ati
atiELM327 v1.5
4 > atsp6
atsp6OK
5 > at sh 7e4
at sh 7e4OK
6 > 2101
210103D 0: 61 01 FF FF FF FF 1: 6E 23 28 23 28 03 00 2: 06 0E 2C 08 07 08 07 3: 07 07 07 00 08 BD 2B 4: BC 58 00 00 8E 00 01 5: 9C 94 00 01 A2 2C 00 6: 00 97 D2 00 00 95 13 7: 00 4A 2A DC 45 01 6B 8: 00 00 00 00 03 E8 00
7 > 2102
2102026 0: 61 02 FF FF FF FF 1: BD BD BD BD BD BD BD 2: BD BC BC BC BC BC BC 3: BD BC BC BC BC BC BC 4: BC BC BC BD BC BC BC 5: BC BC BC BC 00 00 00
8 > 2103
2103026 0: 61 03 FF FF FF FF 1: BC BC BD BC BC BC BC 2: BC BC BD BD BD BD BD 3: BD BD BD BD BD BD BD 4: BD BD BD BD BD BD BC 5: BC BC BC BC 00 00 00
9 > 2104
2104026 0: 61 04 FF FF FF FF 1: BC BC BC BD BC BC BC 2: BC BC BC BC BD BC BC 3: BC BC BC BC BD BC BC 4: BC BC BC BC BD BD BD 5: BD BD BD BD 00 00 00
10 > 2105
210502C 0: 61 05 FF FF FF FF 1: 00 00 00 00 00 07 07 2: 08 00 00 00 00 23 28 3: 23 28 00 01 50 00 00 4: 00 74 03 00 64 0F 72 5: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 6: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

2> till 10> are the command prompts, so you do not need to type them :roll:

Does it react to the atz command?
 
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